Mosh Pit's at Progpower?

[tine984]

The average age of my ticket buyer is 32.
The average person that attends ProgPower spends a minimum of $500.
The average person (and majority) of the attendees have stated they do not want moshing.
The potential for injury increases with moshing and so does the lawsuit potential.

Glenn H.

thank you very much while i am much younger then your average age, i personaly don't want to be cought up in anything that hurt me and mess up my future.

 

[Tanelorn]

Personally, I agree with Megawozniak's attitude.

My highest priority is to go to the show and have a good time with my friends.

I enjoy moshing, but not nearly enough to get thrown out over it.

-Tan

 

[Bryant]

I personally (as I stated earlier) don't think moshing is appropriate at PP simply because it is not the atmosphere for that. The style of music being played, the age of the crowd and the fact that there is limited seating all plays a big part in that. I have been to two PP USA events and have never been involved in any mosh pits (I've only witnessed one) but it certainly seems like the ones here that are against moshing like to resort to name calling etc.
I was into thrash metal and heavier power metal up through the early 90's and have been in countless mosh pits. Does that somehow make me a criminal, animal or even less intelligent than you ?(the people that are getting pissy here about the thread) PP costs me a bunch of money every year, so you can believe I won't jeapordize getting kicked out by getting involved in a mosh pit (not that I am gtoing to stand still like a statue, especially when Tad Morose plays) but like it or not moshing is part of the culture of metal music. Why get irate about a thread about it ?

Bryant

 

[SavaHexe]

Bryant.....I think no one is pissed about the thread, nor about you or your well thought out opinion. After all, you said your are one of those rare types you try to NOT involve those who do not want to be involved, even try to hinder those who do NOT care ...... and I have no other possibility than to believe you since I don't know you. Fact is though, that you are a part of a small minority, sadly.

I've been going to metal concerts for a very long time now, 25 years. Moshing isn't new, true! that doesn't make it better or more enjoyable to those around a pit who want to enjoy a show differently!! and get back home with briuises or even broken ribs. And NO this is NOT a rarety.

IMO it is ridiculous, that a mosh pit is even allowed unless there is a special area for it, best fenced in.

People here getting pissed, are pissed cuz of the dumbass remarks of SOME moshers. You do not need to feel attacked since you are not

 

[tenebre]

"I think people who camp out in front during bands they don't like and stand there acting bored just so they can be there for the band they do like suck way more than moshers. You're disprespecting those other bands and you're not being fair to the people who do like those bands and would like to be up front for them."

Not at all. The headliners are headlining for a reason. And the fans of those bands have ot remain up front from the beginning to be in front during the headlinging band. The opening bands may be unfamiliar. I had not heard Secret Sphere and I was casually enjoying them. But after PP i bought all their CDs. So I fail to see how not knowing a bands music is disrespectful.

 

[Bryant]

Bryant.....I think no one is pissed about the thread, nor about you or your well thought out opinion. After all, you said your are one of those rare types you try to NOT involve those who do not want to be involved, even try to hinder those who do NOT care ...... and I have no other possibility than to believe you since I don't know you. Fact is though, that you are a part of a small minority, sadly.

I don't take your post personally. I even agree with you that many moshers are quite rude. I have been in the pits with more than my share of neanderthals. I have also been to concerts where people were stage diving, feet first (mostly punks/skins.) I mean a combat boot to the face is probably not much fun. Some people just have no respect for others. Those are the types of people I do try to hit as hard as I possibly can in the pit.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

I had a similar experience at PPII. I did not know one song by Balance of Power and they blew me completely away. I own all of their stuff except their first album now.

Bryant

 

[Angrafan]

I respect all of your opinions, but do not generalize.. Moshing doesn't make anyone less inteligent or mature...
I usually do not participate in mosh pits, cause they ARE usually made up of a bunch of idiots... But mosh pits in power metal shows are usually pretty non-violent...
Almost all bands at PPV have some "moshable" moments... The only reason why it wouldn't fit the festival is because most people are not into it... Half a dozen people jumping around among 1000+ just standing there wouldn't be fitting... But that's the only reason, not the music itself... As I said before, I've been to quite a number of power/prog metal shows where the crowd was moshing..

Well, it's not a big deal anyway..

 

[jkohn]

Not at all. The headliners are headlining for a reason. And the fans of those bands have ot remain up front from the beginning to be in front during the headlinging band. The opening bands may be unfamiliar. I had not heard Secret Sphere and I was casually enjoying them. But after PP i bought all their CDs. So I fail to see how not knowing a bands music is disrespectful.

I didn't say you have to be intimately familiar with the bands music, just don't stand there acting visibly bored and disrespecting the band. When you're standing right down in front, the band members can clearly see you, how do you think they feel if they see someone who looks like they can't wait for the set to be over? I'm not saying you personally did this I have no idea. I'm just saying some of the front-row campers do behave this way, and I think it sucks.

 

[Yippee38]

Last year my wife and I sat down for a bit just before Rage started. We remained seated for the first part of the set. When the moshing began, we saw that the crowd opened up to allow them to do their thing. That was cool. The problem was that the 5 or so guys doing it, kept slamming into the people outside this open area. Any time one of those people turned around to glare at the person who just slammed into them from behind, the guy who hit them got up in their face. I could see the guy's attitude change to "C'mon you $%&^. I'll kick your a$$." Most people backed down because they were there to see the show on the stage, not to mosh.

I don't have a problem with moshing per-se. Don't involve me, and I won't bother you. The problem last year was that at least one of the moshers was being beligerant towards all the non-moshers. I would've loved to have seen that guy get thrown out. He was the exception to the normally cool crowd at PP.

 

[Buliwyf666]

Im all 4 it

 

[SavaHexe]

............. I would've loved to have seen that guy get thrown out. He was the exception to the normally cool crowd at PP.

Any answer to why security obviously missed this mosh pit/certain a**holes although there was a NO MOSHING rule given out prior to the festival?
I mean, come on, there is no such thing like a stealth moshpit, is there?

 

[Dark One]

Any answer to why security obviously missed this mosh pit/certain a**holes although there was a NO MOSHING rule given out prior to the festival?
I mean, come on, there is no such thing like a stealth moshpit, is there?

Unwarranted inquiry. Glenn runs a first class show, but it's extremely difficult to account for unforseen events.

I'll try to throw my 2 cents in here. Although it was a rule last year, the crowd wasn't monitored for moshing to the same degree the crowd will be this year. Until last year, there wasn't really a precedent set for people breaking out the mosh pits at Progpower, so it wasn't like there was a "mosh patrol" scouring the floor. Now that a precedent has been established, you can bet that extra measures will be taken to prevent a relapse. Why? Because Glenn cares about the needs of the majority of his paying customers, that's why. But even HE is not psychic. If someone this year (knock on wood), manages to steal instruments or if there happens to be a rash of pick pocketers or if a pack of wild mongooses storm the arena, it's simply impossible to account for every little unique situation that can go wrong. The security team is there to try and keep everything under control and running smoothly, but they are not magicians.

Another example. Even an extremely large, fully established European festival such as Wacken Open Air has issues that need to be further refined year in and year out. Fact - last year some drunken assholes destroyed one of the main shower areas there. You think the festival organizers had a "shower patrol" sitting there just waiting for that to happen? Of course not. Again, you can bet that as a result of the incident, security in that area will be beefed up this year. But even though securtiy can anticipate certain problems more than others, no amount of security is ever 100% infallible.

Jason

 

[Oakenson]

I do not know if it is just me but I've noticed that Metal is getting a lot more popular here in the United States. As with everything else, the more people you have into something, the greater the odds of stupid things starting to happen. It seems at Metal shows people mosh regardless of style. For example, on the Angra DVD, people mosh yet I cannot ever imagining people moshing to a band like Angra yet it's happening. It's a shame really. Now we are going to have punks moshing at shows for melodic bands which is terribly annoying as far as I'm concerned. It's too bad Metal is getting more popular as the quality of the listeners seems to be going down.

 

[SavaHexe]

Jason......I wasn't pointing out at Glenn at all, so cool down. I perfectly know what a great job he is doing regarding the US scene!

The Wacken shower facilities are way outside the "central places" of the fest, a moshpit in front of the stage is in full sight of the security.....big difference if you ask me.

I bet this year it will be wwatched more closely, or maybe security will be instructed more strictly, whatever it takes....

 

[Dark One]

Jason......I wasn't pointing out at Glenn at all, so cool down. I perfectly know what a great job he is doing regarding the US scene!

The Wacken shower facilities are way outside the "central places" of the fest, a moshpit in front of the stage is in full sight of the security.....big difference if you ask me.

I bet this year it will be wwatched more closely, or maybe security will be instructed more strictly, whatever it takes....

Ok, that's cool. But remember, pointing out the performance of the security crew, good or bad is an ultimate reflection on Glenn and the festival as a whole.

Well, as far as the shower facilities example is concerned, I'm just illustrating the fact that unexpected problems can and often do occur. For WHATEVER reason, the mosh pit at Progpower was not noticed last year. Perhaps due to lighting issues, perhaps due to sightlines, perhaps due to other areas security were concentrating on, who knows what the reasons were? Regardless, since it was acknowledged that the problem would be fixed going forward, there's no sense questioning past problems. If there was no indication that any action would be taken to correct the issue, THEN I could see the relevance of discussing past security shortfalls.

 

[nightwish58]

Last year my wife and I sat down for a bit just before Rage started. We remained seated for the first part of the set. When the moshing began, we saw that the crowd opened up to allow them to do their thing. That was cool. The problem was that the 5 or so guys doing it, kept slamming into the people outside this open area. Any time one of those people turned around to glare at the person who just slammed into them from behind, the guy who hit them got up in their face. I could see the guy's attitude change to "C'mon you $%&^. I'll kick your a$$." Most people backed down because they were there to see the show on the stage, not to mosh.

I don't have a problem with moshing per-se. Don't involve me, and I won't bother you. The problem last year was that at least one of the moshers was being beligerant towards all the non-moshers. I would've loved to have seen that guy get thrown out. He was the exception to the normally cool crowd at PP.

Not to act like a tough guy or anything, but god help that asshole during Rage if I was on the floor. Don't get me wrong, the first time he smashed into me, I would have told him off politely, but if what you are saying is true, that he got in people's faces, I would have floored him. You can't just let 1 or 2 jerkoffs get away with that bullshit. Knock the shit out of him, and then see how much he wants to continue to mosh. I know, we shouldn't stoop to their level, etc... but after a while, enough is enough and if I'm trying to enjoy one of my favorite bands up close, I'm not about to get pushed around by some asshole... I'm glad implemented the "no moshing" rule at PP. Go to Jack Koshik's Shit Fest and beat the living hell out of each other if u want to mosh!

 

[Bryant]

Not to act like a tough guy or anything, but god help that asshole during Rage if I was on the floor. Don't get me wrong, the first time he smashed into me, I would have told him off politely, but if what you are saying is true, that he got in people's faces, I would have floored him. You can't just let 1 or 2 jerkoffs get away with that bullshit. Knock the shit out of him, and then see how much he wants to continue to mosh. I know, we shouldn't stoop to their level, etc... but after a while, enough is enough and if I'm trying to enjoy one of my favorite bands up close, I'm not about to get pushed around by some asshole... I'm glad implemented the "no moshing" rule at PP. Go to Jack Koshik's Shit Fest and beat the living hell out of each other if u want to mosh!

Yeah I am the same way. Moshing isn't looked down upon because the guys in the pit get hurt. They will take their lumps and deal with it. It is because of the few dickheads out there that bother or slam into the people that aren't involved in the pit. As I have said many times, I love to mosh when the atmosphere calls for it, but I am considerate to those that do not want to be involved.
As far as "stooping to their level" I disagree. The way I see it, if you take that guy out, you are getting rid of a problem and doing people a favor. People like that don't listen to reason (though like you I would give them the benefit of the doubt first and try) and usually it ends up as the best way to deal with them is beat them at their own game.
And btw I am a tough guy, but I am not a bully nor do I like violence. I do excel at violence on the very rare times when I feel it is necessary to use it, but I use it as a last resort. I'm not going to be a tough guy forever as I am 35 years old, so I am looking into other alternatives.


Bryant

 

[nightwish58]

Yeah I am the same way. Moshing isn't looked down upon because the guys in the pit get hurt. They will take their lumps and deal with it. It is because of the few dickheads out there that bother or slam into the people that aren't involved in the pit. As I have said many times, I love to mosh when the atmosphere calls for it, but I am considerate to those that do not want to be involved.
As far as "stooping to their level" I disagree. The way I see it, if you take that guy out, you are getting rid of a problem and doing people a favor. People like that don't listen to reason (though like you I would give them the benefit of the doubt first and try) and usually it ends up as the best way to deal with them is beat them at their own game.
And btw I am a tough guy, but I am not a bully nor do I like violence. I do excel at violence on the very rare times when I feel it is necessary to use it, but I use it as a last resort. I'm not going to be a tough guy forever as I am 35 years old, so I am looking into other alternatives.


Bryant

LOL; I still have a few years left in me as I am 28, but like you said, I rather not resort to such tactics, and it will only lead to problems down the line. However, sometimes they are unaviodable and must be dealt with accordingly!

 

[zekeyou]

Ok, that's cool. But remember, pointing out the performance of the security crew, good or bad is an ultimate reflection on Glenn and the festival as a whole.

Well, as far as the shower facilities example is concerned, I'm just illustrating the fact that unexpected problems can and often do occur. For WHATEVER reason, the mosh pit at Progpower was not noticed last year. Perhaps due to lighting issues, perhaps due to sightlines, perhaps due to other areas security were concentrating on, who knows what the reasons were? Regardless, since it was acknowledged that the problem would be fixed going forward, there's no sense questioning past problems. If there was no indication that any action would be taken to correct the issue, THEN I could see the relevance of discussing past security shortfalls.

I do know that security (at least some of them) were aware of it-- one really big guy (security) came running out of the lobby and up to the rail and looked down at the pit, but then seemed to recognize that it was 'acceptable'. Another guard came over later and watched it a bit, too. They watched it intermittently for at least half the set.