A "Clayman" Discussion

[SonOfNun]

I've often heard people say that this is the album that started In Flames down the wrong path, despite the fact that I don't think their sound made an overwhelming change until Reroute to Remain. I read the first paragraph of the first review on metal archives where the reviewer states that a lot changed between Colony and this album, that Anders vocals decreased tremendously in quality and that In Flames guitarists quit using guitar melodies ( ). Now personally, I see very few major differences between Clayman and Colony, especially in comparison to the differences between Clayman and Reroute to Remain and find that Ander's vocals sound relatively the same. The accusation that In Flames doesn't have any guitar melodies on this album is just hilarious, obviously the reviewer never listened to the album or a song like 'Swim' at all. But from what I've seen, this is generally what people think about Clayman. I never see Colony getting any crap, despite the fact that it sounds basically the same as Clayman. Could anyone explain what it is about Clayman that makes it such a 'sell out' album? Can anyone also explain how someone can love Colony and despise Clayman? If you've always thought In Flames has sucked ass that's ok, but it seems that lately people would rather hate In Flames because its cool rather than because the music isn't to their liking.

 

[Black Winter Day]

In Flames are dead to me.

 

[J.]

The only ones I feel are worth owning are LS/Sub, Jester Race, and Colony. Whoracle is actually worse than Clayman, IMO.

There are vast differences between Colony and Clayman. Colony is probably the most brutal (if that term can be applied to IF) in their discography, the songwriting is top-notch, it is Anders' finest performance (coincidentally, his most "brutal, with very little clean singing), and there is hardly any filler.

Clayman has two worthy songs (Bullet Ride and Swim). The rest is simply lackluster material compared to the worst songs on Colony. It is very obvious that the band softened there sound on this one. There is more clean singing, and it is highr in the mix showcasing how bad Friden's clean vocals really are.

I think it considered their "sell out" album because the increase in clean vocals, and the "friendly" sounding songs (Satellites and Astronauts), plus it was quite predictable where the band wanted to go with their sound. R2R proved most metalheads right.

Either way, In Flames ceases to be relevant these days.

 

[Krilons Resa]

The Jester Race is the only one I enjoy.

 

[SonOfNun]

Anders vocals seem higher pitched on Clayman, but I certainly don't think they vary so much that they become unlistenable if you liked the vocals on Colony. They are more screechy and I guess you could say less 'brutal' but not unlike what I expect melodic death vocals to sound like for some reason. As far as clean vocals are concerned, they seem almost like he's using a story-telling type of voice, trying to convey a different emotion. Listen to "Bullet Ride", "Satellites and Astronauts" from Clayman and "Ordinary Story" and "Insipid 2000" from Colony. Some songs where I noticed clean vocals. It doesn't seem to me like Ander's is trying to construct vocal melodies like on Reroute, but rather trying to match the music a little better. Honestly, I've always thought of the clean vocals more like narration bits or times when the music slows down and he wants to use a different vocal approach, never as an attempt to mellow In Flames out and find a different audience. Then again, I bought the album on a whim before I even knew who In Flames were so maybe I went in with a different mindset never having heard anything else by the band. Also, I have always found songs like "Satellites and Astronauts", "Clayman", "Swim", "Another Day in Quicksand", etc. to be just as memorable and good as "Embody the Invisible", "Zombie Inc.", "Ordinary Story", "Insipid 2000" etc. When I got into In Flames, I knew very little about metal, yet I didn't find Clayman any more accesible than Colony and have always thought of them as very equal albums, which is probably what prompted this discussion.

 

[J.]

Colony was my first IF album, so that might have something to do with my holding it in such high regard. I then got the earlier stuff (Jester Race was a bitch to find back then, like The Gallery). Like Erik, I got Clayman when it was released. Other than a few songs, I was extremely disappointed. It seemed like Colony-lite.

 

[Under a Stone]

I can only enjoy Lunar Strain and The Jester Race. IMO they went downhill after that.

 

[SonOfNun]

Colony was my first IF album, so that might have something to do with my holding it in such high regard.

That's certainly understandable and also probably has a lot to do with why I hold Clayman in such high regard. Deliverance was my favorite Opeth album for a long time as it was my first, but since then both My Arms, Your Hearse and Still Life have surpassed it as I think they are better albums, but there will always be something special about that album and especially "Master's Apprentices", my first real metal album and song.

Concerning 'The Jester Race', I've been listening to it more lately and it's actually growing on me quite a lot, despite the fact I never really enjoyed it that much in the past. I also have 'Whoracle' but I've listened to it very little so I can't really comment on it.

 

[JayKeeley]

Now personally, I see very few major differences between Clayman and Colony.

I've always said this as well, but it might have something to do with the fact that Clayman was my first IF album.

When you work your way through their back catalog, you start noticing more and more differences, but there is too much better stuff out there to even bother IMO.

In Flames shelf life = 3 months (and that's at a stretch). Honestly, who here still pulls ANY IF album from the shelf, other than Lunar Strain? Who here even still listens to melodic death metal aka power metal with retarded vocals?!

 

[SonOfNun]

In Flames shelf life = 3 months (and that's at a stretch). Honestly, who here still pulls ANY IF album from the shelf, other than Lunar Strain? Who here even still listens to melodic death metal aka power metal with retarded vocals?!

In Flames is good summer music. If you asked me this a few months ago, it would have been a different story, but now I find myself listening to Colony and Clayman once again. I also revisited Soilwork's 'Natural Born Chaos' recently and oddly enough Clayman and NBC were probably my most listened to albums last summer.

 

[NAD]

Who here even still listens to melodic death metal aka power metal with retarded vocals?!

Amen to that. That's what The Jester Race has always sounded like to me, but I still enjoy it now and then.

One thing I will NEVER understand about In Flames: ANDERS VOICE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS. He sounds like a dying coyote getting buttfucked by a rabid moose (and yes I know what that sounds like, I saw it on the Discovery Channel, it was gay animal week).

 

[Dev]

Melodeath = Summer music <- that's true

 

[J.]

Who here even still listens to melodic death metal aka power metal with retarded vocals?!

Well, power metal with retarded vocals is better than power metal with "normal" vocals.

 

[SonOfNun]

One thing I will NEVER understand about In Flames: ANDERS VOICE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS. He sounds like a dying coyote getting buttfucked by a rabid moose (and yes I know what that sounds like, I saw it on the Discovery Channel, it was gay animal week).

I'm putting that in my sig. My first sig with words of wisdom from NAD.

 

[NAD]

Haha, I'm in two people's signatures now.

 

[Black Winter Day]

HAHAHAHA. two people, same quote. the path of the beam is apparant.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

i dunno i really like Clayman. Colony is definately the best, but clayman has so much energy and memorable tunes as well. its a "fun" (used lightly i guess) metal album, nothing wrong with that at all. not everything i listen to has to be neurosis or suffocation, etc.... the vocals don't bother me at all, to me i never really notice vocals unless they are absoluetly horrendous, its just the music on this album that is really good.

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, power metal with retarded vocals is better than power metal with "normal" vocals.

What, like Children of Bodom? You have to be kidding. Have you ever even heard Chemical Wedding, Something Wicked This Way Comes, Painkiller, Dead Heart in a Dead World, In Search of the Truth, etc? Are you saying that people like Anders would improve those albums if he screamed over them instead keeping the original vocalists?

 

[JayKeeley]

*raises hand* I listen to "Lunar Strain" and "Colony" with some regularity. If you count Dark Tranquillity as PM with retarded vocals, "Skydancer" and "The Mind's I" have been in rotation here ever so often since I got them. Can't tire of those.

Not me anymore. It'll be a freak occurence for me to pull out The Gallery and definitely Colony. It's one of those things where I can't help but feel that someone wrote highly melodic heavy metal music and somehow the wrong vocalist turned up for the day.

That's why I think I like Velvet Creation the most - it's the least 'happy' melodic sounding and so the vocals fit better, if you see what I mean. Lunar Strain is cool too because it's so folky in an epic kind of way.

 

[JayKeeley]

Hahah. Well, I'm just trying to prove a point where clean vocals have their place in both power metal and heavy metal. I don't understand the obsession with needing everything to be based on grown men screaming over major-power-chord melodies. It doesn't fit whatsoever, or at least, if it does, then it's short lived through novelty value alone hence the 3 month shelf life.

As much as I like it today, Lunar Strain will not go down in history like Number of the Beast. *Thinks of most modern melodic death metal and compares to traditional classic metal* And we all know this to be true, since our whole conception of music today is based on simplifying the way we distinguish 'music for today' vs. 'music for the ages', right? Like meeting a girl on a date, we all know within the first 5 minutes whether the chick has long-term potential or not, right? Am I lying?