US touring halted?

[Jasonic]

I know many of you will hate this statement and say I am being an old jaded metalhead......

I think part of the problem is how easy it is to discover music.
It is a blessing and a curse.....

You know how the "chase is better than the catch" (No Motorhead pun intended, well...ok...maybe)????
Back in the day people discovered bands from tape trading.
I still have many tapes (somewhere in my crawlspace) of demos and bootlegs that I traded with people.
Bootleg live recordings is how I heard a ton of bands for the first time.
There was more of an effort to seek out these bands.
(IE - finding ads in magazines, hearing them on local metal stations, tape trading, mail ordering a demo from a band, etc).

Now, you can discover a band, and within 24 hours can come off as an expert in the genre.

This is truly an amazing thing if you dive deep and discover something you like and stick with it.

I think what is happening is just as fast as kids are discovering a new band, they are discovering the next trend.

 

[TribunalRecords]

I agree, things are moving at light speed these days and kids are getting sucked into it all. They all want to find the next big thing within their circles and it leads to an endless chase in which everything in their lives becomes "here today gone tomorrow" I used to be the same way as a buyer in an indie record store in the 90's but it was different and i was serving customers what they were wanting. But, thankfully, when i left that part of my life i left the endless searching behind. I mean i still hunt, but for old stuff now on CD that i lost years ago.

 

[Pelata]

I mean i still hunt, but for old stuff now on CD that i lost

This is me now, too. I'm more interested in completing catalogs of favorite bands and buying older music & reissues than I am into seeking out new music. If I happen to have something cross my path (like The Gaslight Anthem) that I love, then that's a happy accident...but I'm not going to go out of my way to find something new when I have plenty of bands I already love that have albums/songs I may not yet own.

 

[ThXinc]

It 'could' be a generational thing too. The promotion of Prog and Power bands has never been good and only getting worse it seems. Most of the fans who will be at PPUSA are not 'kids'. Most are seasoned veterans who began to discover these bands and the genre about 10 years ago. Without the channels to bring in 'new blood' to concerts for bands like these, they just don't get the exposure to support the live performance costs here.

There's no festivals anymore in this country that expose these bands to fans of more mainstream stuff like 'FFDP, Skrillex, etc.

Radio, TV? forget about it.

Internet is really the only channel and there's just so many distractions and other things for kids to gravitate towards, so when it comes to music they just go with what's popular.

I've been coming to PPUSA since 04 and honestly it's become the ONLY concert I really care about seeing other than the occasional appearance of a cool band in a neat club/venue. But that's few and far between. Coming to PPUSA is like a year's worth of music in 3 days which is awesome!

I think as our 'generation' fades into retirement, kids, jobs and other things that slip in as higher priority, marketing these bands, the events that support them, the channels who provide them will all become increasingly important.

 

[kim olesen]

I can guarantee you that if Mangled and friends sold out that pizza joint, moved up to bigger venues, and people actually came, it would effect how people see the US in terms of metal. I'm willing to bet that if we saw bands like Seven Kingdoms, Anubis Gate, Division, While Heaven Wept, and Burning Shadows play to full houses in the US, we would start to see more European bands look toward us as a market willing to pay to go to metal shows.

You've got to give all these American bands a chance. No band is born famous, and even those bands that are suddenly signed to a label without ever having put out an album often won't be huge successes. They've got to build an audience, and if you want there to be a big metal audience in the US, you've got to get up and be a part of it.

Hi, Kim of Anubis Gate just pitching in here. If there was ANY way at all to make us coming to USA to play we'd be on the next plane. The reality is that as a small band we'd have to be the support act. And that means PAYING from 500 $ and upwards PER SHOW. That's called a "buy-on fee". Somit's not just transportation, food, stays etc (which is a fortune in itself) but we will in effect be paying for the headliners tour. This is how it works in the world of metal. And add to that the lost income from whatever daytime jobs we would havento take leave from. All the while the income from gigs i play with cocerbands would also not be there. Now do the math..... When done you know why touring is not easy. A usa tour would probably leave each of us something like 7000 $ in debt. Now if anybody who listened to our music actually bought it instead of downlowding it illegally (or using spottify which pays 0,0005 cents per stream, i kid you not) there would be money in the bank for us to tour on......

 

[rugbyman]

Unfortunately, what Jasonic and ThXinc said are true. I'm 18 and no one my age seems to try too hard to find new music. Even my friends that love finding new music don't try too hard, they just seem to look who is on Warped Tour. And this is what they find, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icXUkIfZxyg

 

[ThXinc]

Metal fans used to be 'beasts' when it came to music, now they're just falling in line. There is a motto I live by when it comes to music or anything for that matter.

You can either sit around and be FED, or get up and HUNT! Something in our culture has taken the hunt out of the beast.


EDIT: @Kim - You made a VERY good point about downloading versus buying the CD. Streaming royalites sure don't help the cause either. The very nature of the music acquisition, marketing and listening market has changed and not in favor of the artist. It's really sad. But I am happy to report with regards to my Anubis Gate album...Purchased from the Nightmare records booth last year at PPUSA!

 

[Jasonic]

Unfortunately, what Jasonic said is true.

LOL - Get used to it my friend!!! Seems to be that everyone is shocked when they agree with me......

I know what you are saying though.
All you can do is just try to continue exposing your friends to your musical finds.

I was once telling a member of my wife's family about various bands I was into. Obviously he hadn't heard any of them. All he really said in response was, "Well, how good can these bands be if they are not on the radio???"

We say this about music, but it's also no different with books, TV, Movies, etc, etc..... There are people who only see major motion pictures. They don't have the desire to dive deeper into independent film, etc. I am not a movie person really, so I would fit into this category. Just not important to me.

I suppose its one thing to like music, and another to be extremely passionate about it. So even the young guy or girl who discovered DragonForce through Guitar Hero and dug it, only dug it because it was some crazy fast song that sounded like video game music and thought it was a hoot. It was never viewed to them as a gateway into getting hardcore into heavy metal.

 

[Mynock]

I was once telling a member of my wife's family about various bands I was into. Obviously he hadn't heard any of them. All he really said in response was, "Well, how good can these bands be if they are not on the radio???"

This. It is one of the major walls I run into when talking about metal, and bands I listen to.

Sidenote:
Not quite as "stupid" a question/comment as another I've been asked before, but up there on the scale. I was explaining where the bands are from and was asked: "But why don't you listen to more french music?" (I still lived in France back then).

 

[J. Golden]

I get in so many discs so often and try to check them all out. I hear so much stuff that it becomes mind numbing. And the personally collection grows dailly even though some of it, most of it will probably never be listened to a second time (I have a disease). And due to this over the past six years I have gotten in stuff and forget about it or can't recall it; the good thing is if I ever go back to it it is new to me all over again. I fine myself just getting stuff to add to catalogs now and I want to break that habbit, this goes as far back as that Candlemass with the white cover (see I can't even remember the name of it) it gets that bad.
As for new and young kids seeking out new stuff; I actually see that more of an issue in older people. For instance the Progpower core audience; Sonata Arctica shirt guy doesn't give a damn about anything he doesn't already know and is not interested in suggestions, I see this as a vendor and watching them at shows. Sure I'll be contested for saying this and it is NOT intended ti be an insult but it is true, prog power metal people can be extremely clichish. Not only that but the majority are middle aged and more often than none come off like they just got into this stuff yesterday, which is cool if that is the case but it does seem very odd. And no this observation is not solely based on Progpower.
I just find it difficult to understand being so closed to new things; sure people like what they like and have their focuses but to limit yourself is beyond me. All my life I have hungered for it taking in as much as possible (probably why I have the disease now).

 

[nomisofsiman]

It drives me nuts but if it exposes people to a good band who deserves attention.....what is wrong with that?

Who are you and what have you done with Bob? I actually agree with you for once.

 

[nomisofsiman]

And so do Blue Oyster Cult, though few GHOST fans will give them the time of day........

It kills me that people don't listen to BOC if they like Ghost. BOC is the reason why I like Ghost so much.

 

[Justin G]

It kills me that people don't listen to BOC if they like Ghost. BOC is the reason why I like Ghost so much.

Not enough songs about Satan, and too many songs about aliens and Godzilla.

 

[1000 Faces]

Perhaps touring bands need to do more research on these lesser-known cities. For example, instead of hitting Chicago, maybe Hammerfall should try setting up a show in Peoria. There's a city that NEVER gets metal shows, and I know plenty of people there who would be beyond stoked to see more of these bands there. In addition, Peoria's in a more central location for Illinois, meaning that fans from southern Illinois would be much more inclined to drive out to the show. Of course, there would have to be a decent number of hardcore fans from the big city (like myself) willing to do the same thing from the opposite side of the state.

I've been largely off the grid for about a week, so forgive the lateness of this reply, but the problem with Peoria (and with most other towns its size, I'd imagine) is that there's no venue at which these hypothetical concerts could occur. Peoria used to have the Madison Theater, which was run by an above-board promoter (Jay Goldberg) and got national acts that weren't big enough to play the civic center. I covered several shows at the Madison while I was working at the Peoria Journal Star, and it was a great place to see fringy (but still popular) acts. Power metal would have killed there during the aughts. Unfortunately, the theater has been closed for about a decade because it's falling apart, and there seems to be a fairly good chance that it's going to be torn down in the relatively near future because no one wants to spend the money to rehab it. And now the only non-arena music venues in Peoria are, I believe, tiny clubs and dirtbag biker bars, and most of the acts they book are local/regional cover bands.

It also sounds like doing business with trustworthy promoters like Jay is becoming much rarer than it should be, and that's a huge deal. Why bother fronting the money for an overseas tour if you're not confident that you're going to get paid for it?

 

[DuchessOfDork]

It kills me that people don't listen to BOC if they like Ghost. BOC is the reason why I like Ghost so much.

My guitarist said the same thing! He introduced me to BOC, and while I don't worship him the way he does, I understand why they're so loved. They have this great "we play what we feel like playing" mentality that I think is really cool to have, as artists. (Also, I like songs about Godzilla..)

 

[AeonicSlumber]

He's definitely no stranger to weird, abrasive, innovative, noisy music. And he's been into black metal since pretty much the beginning. I imagine the new Twilight record will be pretty good as long as he has a lot of input.

I feel like I'm the only person that thinks Twilight is utter garbage but loves Nachtmystium, and not even just the Black Meddle stuff. Instinct: Decay and the new one are great too imo.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Hi, Kim of Anubis Gate just pitching in here. If there was ANY way at all to make us coming to USA to play we'd be on the next plane. The reality is that as a small band we'd have to be the support act. And that means PAYING from 500 $ and upwards PER SHOW. That's called a "buy-on fee". Somit's not just transportation, food, stays etc (which is a fortune in itself) but we will in effect be paying for the headliners tour. This is how it works in the world of metal. And add to that the lost income from whatever daytime jobs we would havento take leave from. All the while the income from gigs i play with cocerbands would also not be there. Now do the math..... When done you know why touring is not easy. A usa tour would probably leave each of us something like 7000 $ in debt. Now if anybody who listened to our music actually bought it instead of downlowding it illegally (or using spottify which pays 0,0005 cents per stream, i kid you not) there would be money in the bank for us to tour on......

and there you have it. the answer as to why.

Last Anubis Gate record is amazing! Bought CD at PP last year, great stuff!

 

[General Zod]

Metal doesn't sell millions and millions of albums and we need everyone we can get these days. Hipsters, goth, whatever. they are listening to some form or metal or heavy music? They are ok in my book.

I take no issue with Hipsters beyond finding them enigmatic (and the overwhelming scent of Patchouli). For the life of me, I'm not sure why certain bands draw a "hipster crowd".

Did you read the rest of the post? It seems like it's hard in some circles to find people who admit to liking Tarja-era Nightwish anymore, that's the part that makes it so unusual to me. There's a fair share of people who don't like their new direction (personally, I think it's awesome), but those people are probably just principled fans who miss Tarja. It's the ones who about-face and say they were ALWAYS bad that make me question whether the sentiment is genuine.

Those people may exist... but I've not met any.

I find it humorous that the people you would think would be all into Ghost like those "metal underground types" who like raw 70s throw back bands. But no they have an issue with Ghost because they are a hipster band.

I think this idea is prevailing, but its reality isn't.

There's always been this stereotype that Metal fans don't like bands who become popular. It seems the obvious is overlooked... the reason the band became popular, is because they dumbed-down or fundamentally changed their sound to appeal to a larger audience. For some reason, people always want to assume it's the larger audience that Metal fans don't like, and not the musical shift that preceded the band's rise. And while I recognize that this is true of some kvlt fans, I don't think they represent the majority.

Ghost is a good band...

When did the idea that "Ghost is a good band" become a universally accepted truth? Why does it seem that people are no longer allowed to dislike Ghost simply because they suck? I find it so incredibly strange that people have made them the poster boys for engendering hatred based solely on popularity. I promise you... that's not it. Ghost really does suck. If you don't believe me, go YouTube some of their music. You'll see that I'm right.

 

[J. Golden]

There's always been this stereotype that Metal fans don't like bands who become popular. It seems the obvious is overlooked... the reason the band became popular, is because they dumbed-down or fundamentally changed their sound to appeal to a larger audience. For some reason, people always want to assume it's the larger audience that Metal fans don't like, and not the musical shift that preceded the band's rise. And while I recognize that this is true of some kvlt fans, I don't think they represent the majority.

Iron Maiden never did. And I don't think anyone says Ghost changed their sound to get popular.
I have just come across more people who one would think would adore that band going by what they are already into but tend to have an issue with the bands popularity. I'm not saying everyone dislikes Ghost for that reason, others may just have no taste. HAHA

When did the idea that "Ghost is a good band" become a universally accepted truth? Why does it seem that people are no longer allowed to dislike Ghost simply because they suck? I find it so incredibly strange that people have made them the poster boys for engendering hatred based solely on popularity. I promise you... that's not it. Ghost really does suck. If you don't believe me, go YouTube some of their music. You'll see that I'm right.

I think the band are good and well I like the band, but hey I like BOC. But I'm sure my liking Ghost is just simply believing the universal truth. After all I'm sure I have made it obvious that I follow the collective.

 

[Justin G]

When did the idea that "Ghost is a good band" become a universally accepted truth? Why does it seem that people are no longer allowed to dislike Ghost simply because they suck? I find it so incredibly strange that people have made them the poster boys for engendering hatred based solely on popularity. I promise you... that's not it. Ghost really does suck. If you don't believe me, go YouTube some of their music. You'll see that I'm right.

We get it. You don't like Ghost.