Autotune in Metal?

[DuchessOfDork]

Okay, how do you guys feel about autotune being utilized in metal? Not as a stylistic choice, but as a fix?

Because personally, I know this sounds funny, but I think metal has more integrity then that. When one of our metal vocalists sings off key, we keep it.

How do you guys feel?

 

[AngraRULES]

I don't know if the whole integrity argument still has a lot of validity. In days where album sales continue declining by the minute, a band wants to make sure they sound as good as they can on the record. CD sales are bad enough; if singers start just keeping the half-step down notes on the albums, they'll just get worse.

I think if it's done subtly in a way that's not as apparent as, let's say, Guns N'Roses' Chinese Democracy or 90% of the hip-hop albums out there, it's acceptable.

I accept a singer being off in a live environment. When I purchase an album, however, I wanna hear all notes hit flawlessly.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I agree with you there, but at the same time, do you think that autotuning someone who can't sing a particular note on key is false advertising? I mean, for example, lets say someone sings badly, but they autotune them to sound good. You see them live, and they're lip syncing. Would that annoy you?

 

[The_Metal_Messiah]

Dude... Every professional singer nowadays has at least SOME pitch correction on their recordings. Producers tend to be perfectionists and go through to "fix" things without even telling the musicians half the time.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Dude... Every professional singer nowadays has at least SOME pitch correction on their recordings.

While I agree with you, that's not exactly what I'm referring to. It's one thing to correct a tiny error, but what I'm talking about is repeatedly correcting things because that singer is incapable of performing the material.

 

[AngraRULES]

I agree with you there, but at the same time, do you think that autotuning someone who can't sing a particular note on key is false advertising?

I think it depends on to which extension you'll apply auto-tune. If you apply autotune to that annoying note that the singer hits sometimes/most of the time, I don't see a problem. However, don't try to make Lemmy hit the notes that Andre Matos hits. That would be considered false advertisement, imo.

I mean, for example, lets say someone sings badly, but they autotune them to sound good. You see them live, and they're lip syncing. Would that annoy you?

Well, they're two different things. As far as I know, lip syncing is when the vocal tracks are being played and the singer pretends he's singing. Not being able to hit the notes live (because of autotune in studio) is a different thing.

As for someone singing badly, I think every band in the world has the notion that the live environment is one of the most (if not the most) aspect of being in a band. I think if the band knows their singer isn't that good, and won't be able to pull it off live, then I would hope they'd have the common sense to pick somebody else to sing. If they choose to go on, though, it's their own fault.

As for a singer who can't hit the notes live, sure it's annoying. But as long as it's not a night-to-day difference, I don't mind it as much (and I am a singer too and find that to be the make-it-or-break-it for me in most cases). I guess I've just grown to accept the fact that a singer will never be as perfect on stage as compared to the studio album.

 

[AngraRULES]

Dude... Every professional singer nowadays has at least SOME pitch correction on their recordings. Producers tend to be perfectionists and go through to "fix" things without even telling the musicians half the time.

This.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

As for a singer who can't hit the notes live, sure it's annoying. But as long as it's not a night-to-day difference, I don't mind it as much (and I am a singer too and find that to be the make-it-or-break-it for me in most cases). I guess I've just grown to accept the fact that a singer will never be as perfect on stage as compared to the studio album.

This much is true. I'm talking specifically about how pop music "makes" musicians out of people who can't sing well to begin with.

Like, if the producer says, "Oh, she missed that one note, and she has no time to fix it.. let me do a little pitch adjustment!" -- I'm cool with that.

But if he says, "Jesus Christ, this is awful. Thank god for Autotune!" -- I'm freaking annoyed

I'm just hoping that this never happens to metal, like it has to pop. Back before autotune, pop singers used to have to sing on key. Nowadays, they don't.

 

[AngraRULES]

This much is true. I'm talking specifically about how pop music "makes" musicians out of people who can't sing well to begin with.

Paris Hilton comes to mind.

I'm just hoping that this never happens to metal, like it has to pop. Back before autotune, pop singers used to have to sing on key. Nowadays, they don't.

Agreed as long as you're not generalizing. There are quite a few pop singers out there nowadays (mainstream too) that are *much* better singers than a lot of the people considered the "best" singers in our scene.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Agreed as long as you're not generalizing. There are quite a few pop singers out there nowadays (mainstream too) that are *much* better singers than a lot of the people considered the "best" singers in our scene.

No, of course not. I think Michael Jackson was one of the greatest vocalists in the world. There are few that can match him in the pop world, nowadays.

Actually, I can't think of any, but I don't listen to pop.

And no, I don't think Lady GaGa is a great singer. XD

 

[adaher]

Some singers do sound better live if they are in the habit of overproducing their vocals in the studio.

 

[AngraRULES]

Some singers do sound better live if they are in the habit of overproducing their vocals in the studio.

Can you mention some? I'd actually be curious to see if I agree with you based on the names...

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Can you mention some? I'd actually be curious to see if I agree with you based on the names...

You know, I actually thought that Joacim Cans was better live than on CD. Maybe it was the excitement, or the fact that he didn't try to reach any of the notes we all know he can't hit.. XD

 

[Metal_Camden]

Someone said it already. EVERY singer on ANY new album that comes out now is at least run through the program to "tighten up" the vocals. No one is ever perfect in the studio and studio pitch is very different from a live pitch setting.

You can tell when someone is just plain out fixed on a record. then you have the other records where say a singer has an awesome take but they fell short on say one note. Its better to save the voice and keep the good take and just fix it. Its also time vs money. You dont have time ( at least the bands who dont have unlimited budgets) to do vocals all 100% natural. if its 90% good take and the off note isnt too "off" then it takes like seriously 30 seconds to make it a full fledged keeper rather than just re recording over and over and over again untill its right.

As far as live. Some people sing to a track just because say they are on TV or something. I saw a nightwish show on you tube where annette was totally lip syncing but thats also probably a) because its a TV slot and someone told them to do it or B) some crazy situation where it would just sound like shit because its piping through a TV.... or a mixture of both.

When a band has legitmate "backing tracks" of say harmonies or group vocals to help give their live sound a bit more power and cd-likeness thats awesome! i love hearing that stuff especially on the big sound systems. I have no clue if hammerfall/accept were using backing tracks for their group vocals but in my opinion they were. 3 people simply cannot replace 10 layers of 8 people from a record. I want to hear it like the CD live but just bigger given the power of a live sound system

 

[Metal_Camden]

You know, I actually thought that Joacim Cans was better live than on CD. Maybe it was the excitement, or the fact that he didn't try to reach any of the notes we all know he can't hit.. XD

Ya he was amazing. He didnt sound nearly like that on ALL the live youtubes ive seen of hammerfall.

He sounded flawless and much more full.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

When a band has legitmate "backing tracks" of say harmonies or group vocals to help give their live sound a bit more power and cd-likeness thats awesome! i love hearing that stuff especially on the big sound systems.

I love that, too! Though, I would not be opposed to having a full choir of small boys to accompany me.

Someday!

 

[eaeolian]

While I agree with you, that's not exactly what I'm referring to. It's one thing to correct a tiny error, but what I'm talking about is repeatedly correcting things because that singer is incapable of performing the material.

I guarantee you this happens on a regular basis. Metal is no more immune to it than any other form of pop music.

 

[eaeolian]

You know, I actually thought that Joacim Cans was better live than on CD. Maybe it was the excitement, or the fact that he didn't try to reach any of the notes we all know he can't hit.. XD

Every time I've seen him live he's sounded better than the CDs. Some guys just don't come across in recordings like they do live. (I know this'll start a crapfest, but Zak Stevens immediately springs to mind.)

 

[Metal_Camden]

Every time I've seen him live he's sounded better than the CDs. Some guys just don't come across in recordings like they do live. (I know this'll start a crapfest, but Zak Stevens immediately springs to mind.)

hey man ill aggree with you here.

 

[Jibrille]

As far as live. Some people sing to a track just because say they are on TV or something. I saw a nightwish show on you tube where annette was totally lip syncing but thats also probably a) because its a TV slot and someone told them to do it or B) some crazy situation where it would just sound like shit because its piping through a TV.... or a mixture of both.

From what I understand, a lot of televised performances on European TV are lip synched. Maybe not the contest shows, but when a band is promoting a song, they're usually just on stage playing to a track. And the shows that always do this, don't allow any exceptions. Which is how you get videos like Iron Maiden doing this:



Or another recent one where Muse go through an entire song with the drummer singing and singer drumming but doing it as though it were their normal performance.