Autotune in Metal?

[General Zod]

The problem with Pop and Hip Hop (aside from they are genres that suck complete ass), is that they've begin using autotune as an effect. It use to be hidden, and used to handle slight corrections. Now it's used in much the same way a guitarist might use a wah pedal. And now that the aforementioned genres are mostly populated by would be strippers and wannabe gangsters, there's almost no way to hide it, so they just flaunt it.

I have no issue with bands, of any genre, making use of it to tighten things up or to save a singer's voice. However, as DoD stated, if they're using it to do things that they're simply not capable of, than that's just lame.

 

[Jibrille]

The problem with Pop and Hip Hop (aside from they are genres that suck complete ass), is that they've begin using autotune as an effect. It use to be hidden, and used to handle slight corrections. Now it's used in much the same way a guitarist might use a wah pedal. And now that the aforementioned genres are mostly populated by would be strippers and wannabe gangsters, there's almost no way to hide it, so they just flaunt it.

I have no issue with bands, of any genre, making use of it to tighten things up or to save a singer's voice. However, as DoD stated, if they're using it to do things that they're simply not capable of, than that's just lame.

I don't mind it as an effect as long as there's still talent. Lady Gaga has several noticeably autotuned styled tracks but she has plenty of vocal talent without it. On the other hand, there's garbage like Ke$ha where even autotuned she's still doing some weird out of tune white girl rapper thing.

 

[General Zod]

Lady Gaga has several noticeably autotuned styled tracks but she has plenty of vocal talent without it.

Someone needs to explain this to me. Whenever people knock Pop music, they tend to offer the caveat that Lady Gaga is the exception. Her songs seem as uninteresting, unoriginal and as devoid of talent as any other in Pop, so I'm not clear why she's typically granted this caveat. The one time I heard her sing live (a rendition of an Elton John song), it made me cringe. So what am I missing? Mind you, I'm not arguing that she's untalented, merely that I've never heard evidence of it. Anyone care to post a link?

 

[Jibrille]

I'm on my phone but look for an nyu performance under stefani germanatto. Granted if you don't like her songs you probably won't care that she's a very capable singer.
There's plenty of other talented pop singers. Beyonce being one but I'm not aware of any songs from her that purposely use autotune for effect.

 

[General Zod]

As you guessed, the music isn't to my liking. But she does have a solid voice.

 

[adaher]

As an example of singers who sound better live than in the studio, two come to mind: Urban Breed and DC Cooper. Both put all these strange effects on their vocals and it just doesn't sound organic, but live you hear just how amazing these singers are.

 

[Mardoch]

To the original question. If you're using it in the studio to cover gaps in your actual ability...that's fail. Why not just rewrite the part so that you don't fake it. I'm on the integrity train. Also, if you're to believe their studio documentaries...Soilwork doesn't use autotune. Strid's just fucking amazing.

Being a vocalist myself...nothing wrecks a band for me more than bad vocals. Especially if it's the case where the album is good, but live you can't hack it. That's basically lying, imo.

 

[Mardoch]

Oh, and Tommy, of Seventh Wonder fame...he sounded even better live than on their album, and he's pretty much perfect on the album.

 

[TheLongshot]

A friend of mine who is a musician uses autotune moderately for his recordings, mostly to fix takes that were almost perfect, but not quite. But, he has also said that he has used autotune as a tool to help himself become a better singer. It is a tool, just like any other and all tools can be abused.

 

[Corsair]

Well, I don't think there's ever going to be a demand for autotune in harsh vocals.

 

[Wandrail]

There is a big difference between using auto-tune to save what is otherwise a superior take, or to clean up background vox, than to rely on it to make your otherwise horrible and pitchy voice workable. Similarly, drums today are almost always quantized and replaced, particularly in metal and rock music. It doesn't mean the drummer sucks, its just a reflection of what the audience has come to expect - a false level of perfection. In the end I don't really think its a huge deal, recording is just a different medium and a different art than performing, more so today than before.

 

[Azrael LenGraden]

Dude... Every professional singer nowadays has at least SOME pitch correction on their recordings. Producers tend to be perfectionists and go through to "fix" things without even telling the musicians half the time.

I will disagree with this statement. If I am working with a singer and something is off, I give them the "Integrity" speech and make them do it again. If they cant sing it right naturally then it's not worth recording... that's just my experience.

 

[Bryant]

I have no clue if hammerfall/accept were using backing tracks for their group vocals but in my opinion they were. 3 people simply cannot replace 10 layers of 8 people from a record. I want to hear it like the CD live but just bigger given the power of a live sound system

Being the Accept guru, I do know that on the Metal Heart release, (which has lots of gang vocals just like Blood of the Nations) all members, including Udo sang the gang vocals along with producer Dieter Dierks. I am sure they either layered it or used some type of effect to make it sound even bigger, but I have seen pix of them in the studio doing the gang vocals. The bass player, Peter Baltes is actually a pretty decent singer, as he sang lead on a few Accept songs over the years, though obviously none on BOtN. They weren't able to duplicate those gang vocals live..... and backing vocals are a huge thing in my ears, but I still thought they were fantastic.
Speaking of backing vocals...... since Vanden Plas will be playing this year, Gunter and Stephan are awesome harmony singers. They certainly won't be able to duplicate the choir vocals, but any of the regular harmony vocals sounded incredible the last time they played PPUSA.

A friend of mine who is a musician uses autotune moderately for his recordings, mostly to fix takes that were almost perfect, but not quite. But, he has also said that he has used autotune as a tool to help himself become a better singer. It is a tool, just like any other and all tools can be abused.

One thing to remember is that you have your whole life to write your first album and a couple of years (or four in Vanden Plas case > ) to write your next one. Many times the new songs, though maybe "perfected" in the studio, haven't been practiced as a band for years and years. If the singer has the ability to perfect the nuances that were changed in the studio through practice then I see no problem with it.
Some singers simply can't do it, others can.

As an example of singers who sound better live than in the studio, two come to mind: Urban Breed and DC Cooper. Both put all these strange effects on their vocals and it just doesn't sound organic, but live you hear just how amazing these singers are.

I never noticed a lot of effects on Urban's vocals. One thing Urban did though is he sang a BUNCH of multi-part harmonies on the last Bloodbound release, "Tabula Rasa." Those guys were not going to be able to duplicate that.

Bryant

 

[AngraRULES]

I will disagree with this statement. If I am working with a singer and something is off, I give them the "Integrity" speech and make them do it again. If they cant sing it right naturally then it's not worth recording... that's just my experience.

You would then probably call a lot of the metal singers "not worth recording" then, huh?

 

[TribunalRecords]

Someone said it already. EVERY singer on ANY new album that comes out now is at least run through the program to "tighten up" the vocals. No one is ever perfect in the studio and studio pitch is very different from a live pitch setting.

You can tell when someone is just plain out fixed on a record. then you have the other records where say a singer has an awesome take but they fell short on say one note. Its better to save the voice and keep the good take and just fix it. Its also time vs money. You dont have time ( at least the bands who dont have unlimited budgets) to do vocals all 100% natural. if its 90% good take and the off note isnt too "off" then it takes like seriously 30 seconds to make it a full fledged keeper rather than just re recording over and over and over again untill its right.

this is it exactly.

auto tune/correction has become the common place then when a band DOESN'T do it they are inferior to all current recordings. it's the same with drum editing, etc. it's the norm so EVERYONE must do it to compete with other bands out there.

when i track with jamie king he is all about the take. my tones, etc. i mean us "screamers" may not have auto tune, but we sure as hell have tools and tricks like vocal align (match multiple takes to be same length), vocal stretch, etc. all little things to keep us from wearing out our voices in the studio doing take after take.

it's why i love the older metal so much more because it's real (for the most part) and just is more honest than today's music, but bands did have bigger album budgets, etc. the ones who didn't have the big budgets are the ones you can tell from the recordings. they are inferior to some extent.

 

[Pelata]

Someone said it already. EVERY singer on ANY new album that comes out now is at least run through the program to "tighten up" the vocals. No one is ever perfect in the studio and studio pitch is very different from a live pitch setting.

You can tell when someone is just plain out fixed on a record. then you have the other records where say a singer has an awesome take but they fell short on say one note. Its better to save the voice and keep the good take and just fix it. Its also time vs money. You dont have time ( at least the bands who dont have unlimited budgets) to do vocals all 100% natural. if its 90% good take and the off note isnt too "off" then it takes like seriously 30 seconds to make it a full fledged keeper rather than just re recording over and over and over again untill its right.

Thirded...

 

[Azrael LenGraden]

You would then probably call a lot of the metal singers "not worth recording" then, huh?

I can only comment on my own experience and knowledge... the people that I have worked with like to do w/o and auto tunning, once complete they tend to be more proud of their work.

When time is a constraint and performers are rushed there is a mindset now a days to, "fix it in the mix". Right or wrong I have spoken to many producers/engineers that do this because of the budget.

 

[AngraRULES]

I can only comment on my own experience and knowledge... the people that I have worked with like to do w/o and auto tunning, once complete they tend to be more proud of their work.

I can understand that. Still doesn't make the performance a "fake" one just because they use it to tweak and tighten things up. It doesn't take any credit and/or talent away, imo.

 

[TribunalRecords]

i really do think most people on this board would be surprised at how much "fake" is on albums today. from re-amping to computerized drum programs, etc. it's a digital world where perfection is the name of the game, sadly enough.

 

[Met-Al]

As an aspiring singer, I am not interested in using Autotune for any reason other than to find the note that I need to hit in a given line. If it's noticeable that I'm falling flat or sharp on a note, I will sing the line containing that note until I get it right. If I can't get the note right, I will re-work the melody. I don't mind adjusting the volume of my notes, as mine admittedly tends to rise with my range. In addition, Dustin and I will copy and paste any repeated sections of a song to save time. However, that's the only kind of studio magic you'll hear on an album featuring my vocals.

My goal with the upcoming Katagory V album is to present a performance that I can re-create live as accurately as possible. I've already spent countless hours singing my lines in the studio (much to Dustin's chagrin, I'm sure!), but I can at least listen to the recordings knowing that I alone sang every note on the album. I understand the arguments for additional uses for Autotune, but that's not how I want to approach my music.


Stay metal. Never rust.
Albert