...for you crazy black metallers...Immortal North American Tour

I wish they were doing a few more dates...but not too many more.
There's a fine financial line between playing a teeny-tiny "mini-tour" like this, which will make good money, and playing WAYYY too many shows in small markets, that lose money like crazy. (Therion's tour comes to mind, and a few others as well.)

Somewhere in between those two extremes lies perfection: the band makes decent money, and fans can get to shows without travelling more than 12 hours, in most cases.
 
I know folks that saw Iced Earth play for 50 people. I saw Opeth play in front of 70. Who would have thought Amon Amarth would be doing regular headlining tours in the U.S. and playing the Nokia when they do? Or that Nile would be on Ozzfest? The genre has changed a lot. It's really not all that surprising.

Zod

The last part about Nile on Ozzfest I disagree with. If anything else, Ozzfest has been known to be a hotbed for extreme metal acts (at least on the second stage) and they fit that description. Ozzfest even had Chthonic for crying out loud which is WAY more underground than Nile.
 
The last part about Nile on Ozzfest I disagree with. If anything else, Ozzfest has been known to be a hotbed for extreme metal acts (at least on the second stage) and they fit that description. Ozzfest even had Chthonic for crying out loud which is WAY more underground than Nile.
The point I was looking to make is, things change. While Ozzfest has become somewhat underground friendly, they weren't always.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozzfest_lineups_by_year

Zod
 
To both Thorns and Camden: Tickets to see Immortal at BB Kings in NYC were priced at $65 and $100 for VIP. Do you think anyone would charge that type of money for a puny $5K guarantee? And, the $70K was mentioned on THIS forum, not off the top of my head.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to come across as a smartass, but I was just blown away by the $70K. Apparently these guys can do this, which is sort of impressive to me.

Well, I'm off to start a black metal band......:lol:

~Brian~
 
I heard the same thing. Keep in mind, there are bands that are not afraid to take a "pay me or I'm not coming to the U.S." attitude. Also keep in mind, Immortal headlined Wacken in front of 65,000 in 2007 and are one of the headliners again this year, along with Iron Maiden.

Zod

I wasn't aware of them having this sort of following to be honest. It doesn't sound like this band is too underground if you ask me. I'm impressed!

~Brian~
 
Maybe the ticket prices are purely a reflection of what the local promoter has to charge to make his money back, but I wonder if the Chivas Regal effect is playing a role as well. Create a sort-of-artificial scarcity by playing only select shows, and charge premium prices, so people think that it's a premium event. It feels like Immortal and Emperor are essentially being positioned as "luxury brands" in the metal world.

The Emperor and Immortal "tours" just seem too similar (reformed Norwegian black metal band plays a few North American dates at premium prices with premiumer VIP packages) to simply be the mechanical result of supply-and-demand; it feels like it's part of a more strategic marketing and branding plan.

Oh, and I vote for closer to 150 at the Immortal show at Riley's. Half the room was taken up by Manowar's sound system! Incredible way to see Immortal though, and I'm actually happy that they aren't coming to Chicago this time. Otherwise I might be tempted to go see them, and then would just be pissed at how it sullied my memory of Immortal and that show. I'm sure it'd be like seeing a MLB All-Star Game...just a bunch of rich poseurs in attendance watching performers go through the motions in a pleasant corporate setting.

Neil
 
Maybe the ticket prices are purely a reflection of what the local promoter has to charge to make his money back, but I wonder if the Chivas Regal effect is playing a role as well.
Probably the case.

...and I'm actually happy that they aren't coming to Chicago this time. Otherwise I might be tempted to go see them, and then would just be pissed at how it sullied my memory of Immortal and that show. I'm sure it'd be like seeing a MLB All-Star Game...just a bunch of rich poseurs in attendance watching performers go through the motions in a pleasant corporate setting.
Just curious... is there some reason to believe Immortal will be mailing in these performances?

Zod
 
Just curious... is there some reason to believe Immortal will be mailing in these performances?

No, no specific reason, but I'm almost sure that would be my perception.

A) Band comes to the US, busses it all around the country, and plays in dive bars as an opening band for no money because the pompous jerks headlining steal it all.

B) A broken-up band reforms for no obvious reason besides money, flies to a few select cities in North America to make a boatload of cash headlining in fancy clubs, and even more by raping their fans with VIP packages.

Under which situation do you think I'd be more likely to buy into the performer's illusion?

Neil
 
Like I said, I wasn't trying to come across as a smartass, but I was just blown away by the $70K. Apparently these guys can do this, which is sort of impressive to me.

Well, I'm off to start a black metal band......:lol:

~Brian~

HAHA I'm in as well. Its already grim and frost bitten today here in sunny Florida!
 
I've long thought that black metal bands should be at the forefront of the Global Warming debate. When Abbath starts saying that Blashyrk feels more like a sauna than an igloo, I'll REALLY know we're in trouble.
 
The Emperor and Immortal "tours" just seem too similar (reformed Norwegian black metal band plays a few North American dates at premium prices with premiumer VIP packages) to simply be the mechanical result of supply-and-demand; it feels like it's part of a more strategic marketing and branding plan.
Neil

Emperor, like At The Gates and Carcass were brands LONG BEFORE reformation at any point. Emperor were one of the biggest black metal bands on earth when they disbanded and had already toured the full US before.

So when they came to the US for a few shows due to brief reunion why tour when you can make a ton of cash for a few shows, and continue the myths surrounding Emperor and their music. the branding was long in place by the musical legacy they left the music world upon breaking up.

like someone mentioned Ihsahn doesn't like to tour extensively anyway, in which i definitely don't blame him.

And for any progressive metal fans who have never heard their final album Prometheus: The Discipline Of Fire & Demise i suggest you pick it up and give it a try. They were far beyond traditional realms of black metal by then and had drifted into progressive territories with likes of Arcturus' La Masquerade Infernale following soon after.

:headbang:
 
Emperor, like At The Gates and Carcass were brands LONG BEFORE reformation at any point.

I dunno...I'm talking about a conscious, non-musical strategy undertaken by a band/label to increase either their market share or their margins. At the Gates was dead and gone before anyone knew their classic album would became a classic. Carcass closed their career with 'Swansong', hardly a consistent brand message.

And Emperor? Being one of the biggest black metal bands in the world didn't mean a whole lot then. I saw them in 1998 at the Milwaukee Metalfest, and in 1999 with Borknagar at a shitty 20%-filled theater for a $15 ticket price. There was certainly no mythmaking going on there! And it's a universe away from $100 VIP packages.

Sure, those bands continued to be well-known names in their absence, but that's basically the opposite of branding. That's grass-roots, organic fandom, desiring them purely for their music. Actually there was probably some attraction, just like when a musician dies, that comes from the complete *lack* of marketing.

Neil
 
I saw them in 1998 at the Milwaukee Metalfest, and in 1999 with Borknagar at a shitty 20%-filled theater for a $15 ticket price. There was certainly no mythmaking going on there! And it's a universe away from $100 VIP packages.

I remember that show. I didn't go since that was never really my cup of tea. I had the flyer, but at that time, I knew very little of Emperor, except by name. That was at the old Copernicus Theater, right?

There are TONS of young kids into black metal who missed it the first time, which is why Emperor and Immortal can charge what they want. Those bands probably sell a ton of merchandise too.
 
That was at the old Copernicus Theater, right?

Congress Theater. Back then it was still a shithole, before they ripped all the seats out and made it the half-decent venue it is today. So everyone kind of gathered in the front, orchestra-pit area, where a few rows had been removed, and otherwise people just sat randomly in the vast seating area.

After Emperor finished, ran over to Smiler Coogan's to catch Nevermore! Ah, those were the days.

http://www.gregie.com/neil/words/1999/07/07/emperor-borknagar-witchery-peccatum/

There are TONS of young kids into black metal who missed it the first time, which is why Emperor and Immortal can charge what they want.

Probably a non-zero number of Pitchfork dweebs too.

Neil
 
I dunno...I'm talking about a conscious, non-musical strategy undertaken by a band/label to increase either their market share or their margins. At the Gates was dead and gone before anyone knew their classic album would became a classic. Carcass closed their career with 'Swansong', hardly a consistent brand message.

And Emperor? Being one of the biggest black metal bands in the world didn't mean a whole lot then. I saw them in 1998 at the Milwaukee Metalfest, and in 1999 with Borknagar at a shitty 20%-filled theater for a $15 ticket price. There was certainly no mythmaking going on there! And it's a universe away from $100 VIP packages.

Sure, those bands continued to be well-known names in their absence, but that's basically the opposite of branding. That's grass-roots, organic fandom, desiring them purely for their music. Actually there was probably some attraction, just like when a musician dies, that comes from the complete *lack* of marketing.

Neil

i saw that same Emperor tour in SC with Borknagar and i drove over 3 hours to see them and the place was packed out. for me, myth making usually happens after a band has called it quits as people recall stories of shows, some true - some not true, but still keeping the legacy of the band alive. again, that could be just my take on how myths come to be.

but as far as branding Emperor were on every cover or featured in large spreads within magazines i read (which back then was a lot) whenever something new was coming. in the US they might not have been massive, but everywhere else they were and we all know the US metal market isn't the greatest in the world and can hardly be the place in which a Scandinavian band's popularity should be judged.

i will just agree to disagree with on the Carcass and At The Gates topics. Because i don't know about you but Heartwork and Slaughter Of The Soul changed my world upon purchasing those albums way back then. So simply stated those were destined to be classics for me from the get-go and i think why they became classics to the genre over time. What they eventually turned into for the generations after the bands were dead and gone is only a testament to how good they were. But they did make an impact immediately in the music scene originally as well.

i could be mistaken on this but i am pretty sure Michael Amott and Bill Steer were the first guitarists from the death metal genre to be featured on the cover of guitar player magazine (any guitar guys remember that?! help? hahaha) after release of Heartwork. again, something i remember that could actual "myth" hahaha.

also, to judge carcass on swansong is kind of funny. they had already been crushed by sony records by then hence it sitting on a shelf until earache could get it back from them.

again, just my opinions. i am a carcass nut, sorry.
 
I'm also confused by Carcass having a "consistent brand message"...Swansong was a lot different than Heartwork, which was a lot different than Necroticism, which is different than their grind albums. Consistent isn't the word I would use to describe them, unless you mean consistently awesome.