edgeofthorns
24 Hours Ago...
Has anyone ever thought about LaTorre might actually bring some quality to the writing???
~Brian~
~Brian~
So Tate is out of 'Ryche
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VenomGA
At War With Stan
- Jul 28, 2005
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They not only got rid of Geoff, they also got rid of Susan by proxy. She has burned a lot of people as well. Geoff seemed to be listening more to his wife than to his bandmates when it came to music. However, I somewhat agree with Zod. I do not see anyone giving a crap on whatever new disc the "ryche puts out. If they were smart, they would do what a lot of classic bands do: concentrate on their classic stuff, and throw a new song in once in a while on tour.
The Fiddler
Just Do It.
Exactly what I was thinking. I really like the solo samples he's written and which are available on YouTube. I'm not expecting a return to the glory days, but I'm certainly expecting a pure "metal" album which they haven't produced since Mindcrime. Anything Todd and the guys come up with will be better than anything post-Promised Land.
See, I think this is Tate's fault though. He's stated before in interviews that he hates Metal!!! I think his hating of Metal influenced the other members of the band to write stuff that was NON-Metal.....I think Tate's metal hating is responsible for pulling Queensryche away from their Metal song-writing roots...
Notice how fast they raced to wanting to play only their old material once Todd was singing with them??....They could have said, "Todd if you are going to see with us, you need to focus on the non-metal material" but they didn't.....
See, I'm going the other way with this. They need to do an Accept. Put out a killer record so killer that it can't be denied. That's why Accept is touring the States again, and doing well. They were dead in the States for years before that. A killer record will shut up the naysayers right off the bat.
Can they do it? Probably not. But IMO that's the recipe for Ryche Rejuvenation.
SavaVIDude
Savatage Fanatic
IMO - Geoff Tate had the greatest rock voice ever. The last time saw them was a few years ago and he sounded pretty damn good.
But, no matter how good the singer is, if he's got nothing to say, it's pretty empty. IMO, QR died when DeGarmo left. He was the heart of the band. Even though I didn't really care for his last two albums, I think he was irreplaceable, just as I BELIEVE Geoff is irreplaceable in QR.
Chris
But, no matter how good the singer is, if he's got nothing to say, it's pretty empty. IMO, QR died when DeGarmo left. He was the heart of the band. Even though I didn't really care for his last two albums, I think he was irreplaceable, just as I BELIEVE Geoff is irreplaceable in QR.
Chris
edgeofthorns
24 Hours Ago...
My point exactly...nobody knows until new material is written and released. LaTorre just might have some good stuff up his sleeve too! Hell, anything is better than Here In The Now Frontier for God's sake...and DeGarmo was still around!
~Brian
nomisofsiman
Member
It's hard to say really. Will it be a metal album? Yes, it will. However, will it actually be good and have the sound fans are looking for? That's the big question and I don't know as Tate has since the beginning been the biggest contributor to their catalog, alongside DeGarmo when he was in the band. What I'm surprised at is that they were able to do this, as I would've thought Tate owned the Queensryche name.
Everonn
Member
Queensryche wasn't defined by being heavy. Queensryche wasn't defined by extremely technical players. Queensryche was Queensryche because of unusually great songwriting. Wilton contributed songwriting to plenty of awesome QR material, but the most powerful QR songs from their prime came from the CDG/GT writing team. By that measure, 3/5ths of Queensryche's members do not really comprise 3/5ths of Queensryche. Hell, 4/5ths of Queensryche's members haven't made "Queensryche" Queensryche since 1994.
They were already a nostalgia act. Now they're that much less what Queensryche was. Will wait and see what happened, but there's no compelling reason to expect QR will resemble it's former glory with future material. They've just become an arguably more compelling live act, a more technically competent Queensryche cover band. And that's perfectly alright, if that's what they want to do. It's pretty much the only road still open to them.
It's pretty clear to me, though, a lot of fans who think the next chapter of QR is going to somehow be magical again are going to be disappointed. They're probably not going to release the Next Great Queensryche record. It wasn't Tate holding them back from that. That's why Slave to the System and Soulbender aren't playing festivals and headlining amphitheaters.
- Chris
They were already a nostalgia act. Now they're that much less what Queensryche was. Will wait and see what happened, but there's no compelling reason to expect QR will resemble it's former glory with future material. They've just become an arguably more compelling live act, a more technically competent Queensryche cover band. And that's perfectly alright, if that's what they want to do. It's pretty much the only road still open to them.
It's pretty clear to me, though, a lot of fans who think the next chapter of QR is going to somehow be magical again are going to be disappointed. They're probably not going to release the Next Great Queensryche record. It wasn't Tate holding them back from that. That's why Slave to the System and Soulbender aren't playing festivals and headlining amphitheaters.
- Chris
Or Black Sabbath firing Ozzy!
Black Sabbath with Iommi and Dio is more Black Sabbath than if there would be a Black Sabbath with Ozzy and without Iommi. Actually latter would not even be a Black Sabbath. I cannot even imagine the music.
Hence, Black Sabbath is Iommi!
With all of the Tate/Queensryche talk going on, I decided to revisit the Operation: Mindcrime II cd.....I actually think it's a pretty good album. They needed a better sound engineer, because the mix and the sound is terrible, but I think the songs are there. If this album had the same production values as the first Mindcrime cd, I don't think people would be so harsh about it. Tate sounded great on it (yes, he's not very good live anymore), and I think he'll be missed more than most people think. Remember, Ripper Owens could kill on the older Priest material, but that didn't save Jugulator and Demolition. Sometimes, there's a certain intangible that a key band member/singer has that can't be duplicated, no matter how good a clone the new guy is. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Maybe a "CHANCE" of headlining a future ProgPower, doing some classic songs
(I am guessing without Tate they would draw less crowd if they tour themselves which would open a possibility of playing in ProgPower)
Sir Exar Kun
Member
I'll disagree with this, simply because I felt the songs were rather lazy overall. O:M1 had some epic tunes on there, and O:MII just felt rushed by comparison. Pamela Moore and Ronnie James both felt underutilized.
But hey, cool that some people do dig it. I'm just not one of them.
The realistic expectation of new Queensryche would be playing some classic material on the road, kicking ass with the new singer that can actually sing these songs now, which I would take any day.
All these old classic bands doing this constantly with their established fans who see them play everytime they come to town and see them sing classic tunes: Journey, Eagles, Foreigner, Styx, Def Leppard, Kiss, Motley Crue etc.
Very seldom they make an album or if they make one it does not sell as much as they sell tickets to their show. And people at their show don't care about the new stuff when it is played.......
All these old classic bands doing this constantly with their established fans who see them play everytime they come to town and see them sing classic tunes: Journey, Eagles, Foreigner, Styx, Def Leppard, Kiss, Motley Crue etc.
Very seldom they make an album or if they make one it does not sell as much as they sell tickets to their show. And people at their show don't care about the new stuff when it is played.......
Pelata
FINAL SIGN
I don't care how good LaTorre is (and he is), he is not going to "save" Queensryche in the sense of somehow "returning" the band to the sound of The Warning. The last thing they need to do now is put out a new album before the ink is even dry on LaTorre's contract. Not having DeGarmo and now not having Tate? That's a LARGE chunk of chemistry and charisma gone.
I agree w/ Matt in that if they want any hope at all of making this work and reviving the band, they need to take a page from Journey's book and tour for at least a year or more before putting out an album. They need to take the show to the people playing what all the fans obviously want (EP to Empire), get everyone fired up...MAYBE sprinkle a new song in toward the end. Then try to test the waters with an album.
While I know DeGarmo's absence has hurt the band, I also believe that even if he had never left, Queensryche would still have moved on from their "golden era" sound. HITNF is proof of that. I've said all along, it's not the "Metal" that Queensryche has lost...it's the intensity. Nothing post-Promised Land has had that brooding intensity that even the Empire material had. THAT is chemistry. THAT is something that you only get when a specific group of people interact creatively (DeGarmo/Tate/Wilton).
T/W alone didn't have it as much as D/T/W or D/T had together, and Tate certainly doesn't have it on his own...but neither does Wilton. So, unless LaTorre has some serious untapped writing potential AND some sort of unique creative chemistry w/ the other 4, I don't think anyone should have any expectations of a new Queensryche album sounding like old Queensryche.
If anything, it'll sound like (I predict) average Power Metal with some modern riffs. I like the example above of how, as awesome as Ripper was on old JP material, it didn't help Jugulator or Demolition at all...I think we'll see the same thing w/ Queensryche.
I agree w/ Matt in that if they want any hope at all of making this work and reviving the band, they need to take a page from Journey's book and tour for at least a year or more before putting out an album. They need to take the show to the people playing what all the fans obviously want (EP to Empire), get everyone fired up...MAYBE sprinkle a new song in toward the end. Then try to test the waters with an album.
While I know DeGarmo's absence has hurt the band, I also believe that even if he had never left, Queensryche would still have moved on from their "golden era" sound. HITNF is proof of that. I've said all along, it's not the "Metal" that Queensryche has lost...it's the intensity. Nothing post-Promised Land has had that brooding intensity that even the Empire material had. THAT is chemistry. THAT is something that you only get when a specific group of people interact creatively (DeGarmo/Tate/Wilton).
T/W alone didn't have it as much as D/T/W or D/T had together, and Tate certainly doesn't have it on his own...but neither does Wilton. So, unless LaTorre has some serious untapped writing potential AND some sort of unique creative chemistry w/ the other 4, I don't think anyone should have any expectations of a new Queensryche album sounding like old Queensryche.
If anything, it'll sound like (I predict) average Power Metal with some modern riffs. I like the example above of how, as awesome as Ripper was on old JP material, it didn't help Jugulator or Demolition at all...I think we'll see the same thing w/ Queensryche.
The funny thing to me is that the argument being made is to give the fans what they want....you know what made the first few releases from Queensryche great, right? They did those albums for themselves...they didn't have the massive fanbase at that time dictating to them what they wanted to hear. It's that freedom from expectations that allows artists to produce their best work, IMO.
Pelata
FINAL SIGN
Yeah, but I'd say that Queensryche has always done what they (Tate) wanted and the fans started to not care anyway.
I agree that part of what made the albums the fans love so great is that Queensryche made their own rules...but they were making their own rules when they made Tribe and DTC too...
Good point....I guess, to me, it boils down to whether people are fans of a BAND, or fans of an album(s). It's like if there's a dude who always hits a ZZ Top concert because he wants to hear stuff from Eliminator, but has no idea that they've released "newer" stuff like Rythmeen or Mescalero....is he a fan of ZZ Top, or is he a fan of Eliminator?
Regardless, best of luck to all sides of this Queensryche deal...hopefully it'll result in some artistic creativity and good tunes.
Not to mention that neither the band or the fans are in the same state they were back then either. There is a lot of context that isn't simple to recapture. Not every band is AC/DC, churning out the same thing over and over again in a manner that keeps the fans happy.
That being said, I don't think all latter-day Queensryche has been crap. I actually liked Tribe and American Soldier. Not nearly as good as their heyday, but pretty good for what they were.
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