You too can plan a Metal Fest!

[eppst1]

Wow! It would seem I'm in the minority when I say I really enjoyed this years CPF and it's lineup (maybe I'm easy to please). I know they didn't have the Blind Guardians and Megadeths of the world playing the fest, but I thought they had great bands. I'm a huge fan of N Doom, Solitude Aeturnus, Suspyre, and (gasp!) Atheist. And thanks to the fest, I am now a fan of Shatter Messiah, Thursiaz, Benedictum, Saturnus, and Martyr (I thought Lethal was OK, just nothing special). I never heard of those bands before CPF, but now own CD's from all of them. So I guess it's always in the eye of the beholder. Sorry, but I had to post something positive about this years CPF.

Getting back on the topic at hand...
If I were to put together a metal-fest, first I think I would try to get a nice mix of everything. Some death, some black, some power, some thrash, etc... I would try and get a couple bands from Europe that are starting to get quite popular or just havne't had a chance to tour the States. I'm thinking about bands like Wintersun, Ensiferum, Elvenking, Sabaton, and maybe a band like Unleashed. I have a feeling (only a feeling, no data to back this up) but some of those bands would come over here just to get their foot in the door and may come reasonably priced. As to fill in the rest, that might be a little tougher to pull off and keep people interested. I would think bands like Outworld, Eternal Legacy, Shatter Messiah, or Miles Beyond would be good US up and coming bands that many people may of not heard of, but just need some people to hear them. Then maybe a reunion band like Sacred Reich or Powermad.

So I guess my line-up would look something like this:

Friday
Shatter Messiah
Miles Beyond
Arsis
Sacred Reich/Powermad/Unleashed
Ensiferum/Wintersun

Saturday
Eternal Legacy
Outworld
Sabaton
Melechesh/Destruction
Elevenking

 

[MetalNations]

Nathan's cohorts have already ended one of their fests, and possibly Heathen Crusade too.

Yup. That is true.

so... true.

 

[Ramaries]

To avoid a ProgPower wishlist:
Shatter Messiah
Wintersun
Hypocrisy
Ensiferum
Scar Symmetry
Sigh

LOL! Fuck! Somebody do this! LOL!

 

[eppst1]

Yup. That is true.

so... true.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

[woosta]

Night 1:
Headliner: DAD
3: Fair Warning (or Thunder)
2: House of Lords
1: STURM und DRANG

Night 2:
Headliner: Gotthard
3: Starbreaker
2: The Poodles
1: Brother Firetribe

This would definately be in the $100/$150 range though for tickets.

THIS is the type of festival I would do! It would be based in a more hard rock/melodic metal style but with the European piece that makes PP so successful. In fact, I don't know if you could pick a better show than this idea except to maybe place Wig Wam in it instead of Sturm und Drang at this point.

 

[woosta]

I would think that for a new fest you would have to go for bands that were known, kinda on the verge maybe, but at that stage where they're still affordable. Then maybe get 1-2 veteran bands that aren't that expensive on there to anchor it.

Newer bands....
Beyond Fear
Cellador
Halcyon Way (ahem)
Vainglory
Outworld
stuff like that

Anchor types...
Sacred Reich
Flotsam & Jetsam
Annihilator
Paradise Lost
Trouble
and so forth...

maybe your anchor types are bands that have been out a while, have a following, but don't play much or are on a reunion kick...which might make them affordable but lend the fest credibility.

My $.02.

My only problem with this idea is that it's essentially what BWBK did and people around this board bitched up one side and down the other about "nobody interesting" blah blah blah. Now if this board is indicative of the general metal populus, and I don't think it is, you'll be up against it. Personally, I really enjoyed all the BWBK festivals and I think someone could pick up on that style and run with it if they aren't going to anymore. Come to think of it, I think maybe this general topic shouldn't even be taken up here because few can separate what they want from what reality dictates in terms of bands drawing fans.

 

[General Zod]

I know they didn't have the Blind Guardians and Megadeths of the world playing the fest, but I thought they had great bands.

As I said earlier, there are a great number of tiers between Blind Guardian and Lethal. And no one was expecting CPF to get Megadeth.

The fact of the matter is, the CPF promoters weren't happy with the headliners. If they wanted Lethal as a headliner, they would have originally gone after Lethal. Lethal wasn't even Plan B. They were more like Plan N. They didn't get selected until there were 30 days before the festival and they still didn't have their headliner.

Zod

 

[eppst1]

As I said earlier, there are a great number of tiers between Blind Guardian and Lethal. And no one was expecting CPF to get Megadeth.

The fact of the matter is, the CPF promoters weren't happy with the headliners. If they wanted Lethal as a headliner, they would have originally gone after Lethal. Lethal wasn't even Plan B. They were more like Plan N. They didn't get selected until there were 30 days before the festival and they still didn't have their headliner.

Zod

OK, I may of exaggerated about the headliner a bit.

However, I know a lot of people are asking for Nocturnal Rites to play the States - which they did at the 2006 CPF - and unless I'm mistaken (which I may be becuase I don't have the numbers) there didn't seem to be anymore people at the 2006 verion compared to the 2007 version of CPF.

And I agree with you about Lethal not being a headliner. But I thought Atheist would pull more of a crowd considering they hadn't played the States in a looooong time and they are regarded as one of the pioneers to tech metal. Atheist was one of the main reasons I went to CPF. They had a huge crowd and a great reaction at Wacken (Atheist was one of the reasons I went to Wacken last year).

 

[Diabolik]

When Nocturnal Rites played a few years back....there was almost zero advertising out and the location was terrible. I think if they played now they would draw some people. Not huge crowds but more than they did at the fest. There were lots of locals in the city here who had no clue the fest was even going on even. I think some people who put these fest on forget that they are not ProgPower and they need the advertising and buzz to get people in the door.

I was very open about my disappointment on the Powerfest board over the lineup and stuff. There was lots of buildup for nothing really. Sure they got quailty bands and not just locals but not really any big names to get people there. I think they had a great idea of havng lots of different types of metal, but the wrong selection of bands. I think the Powerfest and BWBK has a great idea of getting a good mix. It is just hard to get the right selection to make it work. But you have to be careful to....you dont want to get caught up in internet hype by looking at what a few on a board say because last year when Manilla Road played the Alehorn Fest in Chicago, no one was there. Online everyone couldnt stop talking about them and how they would totally travel to see them play live. You would have thought that they were the second coming of Christ. When it came to that night....really no one showed up. So it is very hard to do this the right way. No matter what happens there will always be happy people and angry people.

 

[Stingray11214]

thank you...I have been saying this for a while now. For a fest you need a current band who is a draw and something to make a the fest stand out. The only downside of how Powerfest was handled was that the atittude of "it is a metal fest and people should support it" thing going on. You just cant have a show and expect people to come from all over. You need to make it something different than an average show. Seriously...there was so much open room at the fest. Even funnier was the people who were up front guarding thier sacred front row spot where you could literally just walk up front anytime you wanted.

The big problem is the direction of marketing. Look, let's be real here. How many General Zod's, Biffle's, SeeYouInHell's or AMBR's, etc. are out there? And, of those that exist, how many festival's or shows can they possibly go to? Unless they are retired carrying Mike Bloomberg-type balance sheets, the answer is not many. The problem is that every festival on these boards seems like they are marketed to the people on these boards and very little else. Why aren't people like Eddie Trunk, who has a massive fan base, talking up these fests? There was a near celebration when ProgPower was given a blurb on Blabbermouth not too long ago. Why? Shouldn't that have been happening anyways?

This is not to be meat as a rip to anyone. And, if anyone takes it that way, I apologize. But, eventually, Zod/AMBR/SYIH/Biffle etc. are going to be dead , and then what? You need to expand the base. And, you don't really see promoters doing that. They want to keep it to the people that went "last year" or the "last 5/10/15" years. That is great....until they (your calamity here). I mean, we were all metal kids once. Are we THAT fearful of the mallgoth invading the sacred space of the Prog/Power scene? Those are the people that will be holding up ProgPower XL when Glenn's kids are on the soundboards, and the rest of us are on Social Security and cannot afford the $400 for the weekend ($666 for the Gold Badge). That is unless all the promoters on UM are hell bent on keeping these festivals what many of them are accused of, rightly or wrongly, as "insider" fests.

People need to realize that the US CAN have its own Wacken or Graspop. The problem is which of the new breed of promoter will take the ball and run with it. Goddamnit, if there can be big festivals for radio crap in Baltimore, Chicago and Las Vegas, why can't the metal community?

Now, I will get off my soapbox. I know I will get ripped, so I brought my asbestos.

Peace,
Ray C.

 

[Diabolik]

It is very true. In Chicago we had the Pitchfork festival which is for indie type bands. It was a gamble and no one knew how it was going to turn out. It ended up being a HUGE thing and now they do it every year. They kind of did what Glenn has done and gotten great up and coming bands and bands who are popular now. Plus from everyone I talk to who goes loves how it is run and very professional in a good way. I have never heard one bad thing about the fest. There is a definete way to do things. We have all seen it. As Stingray has said...there just needs to be a guy who can run with it. Metal is at one of it's high points again. Now would be the time to make a huge Waken type fest. With great bands and other things to do, you could make it work. the key thing would be tapping into the mainstream to get more people. Not with getting bands of that type but putting the word out that this thing is happening. A blurb on Blabermouth or on Ultimate Metal isnt going to get anyone new coming. You need to hit local papers and other sources. We can sit here all day debating it, but until someone really steps up, there is no real point.

 

[General Zod]

However, I know a lot of people are asking for Nocturnal Rites to play the States - which they did at the 2006 CPF - and unless I'm mistaken (which I may be becuase I don't have the numbers) there didn't seem to be anymore people at the 2006 verion compared to the 2007 version of CPF.

I suspect the problem is, when you say "a lot of people", it's relative to our scene.

In the end, a successful festival requires enticing people to travel. Glenn does this by overwhelming people with quality acts. However, if you're headliner is a band who normally get a 3 slot at ProgPower, you have to expect you're going to pull in exponentially fewer people.

But I thought Atheist would pull more of a crowd considering they hadn't played the States in a looooong time and they are regarded as one of the pioneers to tech metal.

Unfortunately, technical metal just isn't a draw. And many of the folks who were into Atheist back when, have moved on. Although Atheist deserves a better fate, I can't say I'm surprised by the turn out.

Zod

 

[Harvester]

I’ll be happy to step up to the plate and tell you that there will never be a utopian U.S. Wacken festival. It’s already been attempted and met with tepid results. It’s called the New England and Hardcore Festival. Look at everything they have had in the past few years:

*Major corporate sponsorship that you do not see outside of Ozzfest.
*The best promotional exposure you can get in the U.S. (Hell, even Headbanger’s Ball did a show from there).
*They booked some of the most popular mainstream bands available and combined them with lower card bands of all types and popularity.
*They have a very strong geographical location in terms of historical draw and optimal travel conditions (train from NYC, Philly, etc).

All of that and they still do not bring in monster numbers you are associating with Wacken. Now you can complain that they book too many touring acts to make people travel across the States. Well, even with the amount of money and backing they have…that’s all you can realistically afford to do. The cost to get one band over from Europe to the States is insane compared to getting an example band from Sweden to Germany. Not only that, but you have labels in Europe willing to take on those costs because they sell records there. That is not the case here regardless of how big you think the resurgence is today. Labels here do not spread the wealth. They sink bucks into the handful of bands that make them huge profit and leave the others to fill the release void.

I also believe that the expense of traveling in this country eliminates those that would attend an essentially underground festival. You have to stick an Iron Maiden caliber band in there to help draw and those types of bands are going to tour the U.S. if they are already here.

I could go on and on further, but I realize you could counter every point I make. Just ask yourself why a single person hasn’t made a run at the U.S. Wacken. Is it truly because they lack vision or guts? Or because only those that could pull it off truly understand what they are up against and decide it just isn’t worth the risk.

 

[Cheiron]

Wacken attendance is now around 60,000. But 5 years ago it was less than 30,000. So to use 30,000 for comparisons (as any festival that wants to be huge (besides Woodstock) generally has to build up over time.

Rocklahoma supposedly had around 30,000 people this year. Pretty good I'd say. You change it next year from all '80s hair metal' to adding some bands like Download gets... like Metallica or something, and maybe a hardcoreish big act and maybe you are getting 45k people. I still wonder if anybody besides some bands made any money there though, and would make any money in this latter case.

So I have to somewhat disagree with you Glenn. Wacken numbers are possible at a US "metal" concert (heck the numbers aren't -that- big). But its not necessarily going to be the type of show a lot of people here would want to go to. Which is evidently the truth since seemingly nobody here went to Rocklahoma. And doesn't mean that it will last long (because of a course a profit has to be made or nearly made with expectance to make one soon enough if it is to last).

You also are not going to get as many metal festivals of Wacken (or nearly Wacken) size in the US. Bang Your Head is getting between 25k-40k (haven't seen solid numbers).

Anyhow, still small change compared to 400+k people at the first Woodstock.

Or for that matter 3.5 million people at a Rod Stewart concert...

 

[J-Man]

In the 60's (granted it wasn't metal) there were numerous festivals held here in the states the size of Wacken, and if I remember correstly NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM MADE MONEY!!!! It's not that there is no one here with the vison to try this, It's just that you would have to have the pocketbook of Ted Turner or Warren Buffet, and the Logistical support of FED-EX and UPS combined, plus catering for the bands would have to be handled by The Food Network, and security by Brinks and Pinkerton, not to mention all the other major things that could crop up.

It's not about having the balls or vison to do it, it's a question of Logistics and knowing what your up against.

 

[Harvester]

Rocklahoma supposedly had around 30,000 people this year. Pretty good I'd say. You change it next year from all '80s hair metal' to adding some bands like Download gets... like Metallica or something, and maybe a hardcoreish big act and maybe you are getting 45k people. I still wonder if anybody besides some bands made any money there though, and would make any money in this latter case....

You are still talking about a festival based on nostalgia and mainstream success including multi-platinum sales the likes of that will never happen again in the States. Do you know how old the crowd was at that show?

Back on topic though, it was not a Wacken type roster which is what I am specifically talking about. If I booked a show with the bigger bands from Wacken this year (BG, IE, Immortal, In Flames, Saxon) , how many people do you think it would draw? I dare say not as many as this forum would lead you to believe.

 

[Jasonic]

American metal fans are lazy. Plain and simple.
Sure, a lot of us here travel to go to shows and festivals, but that is a VERY small majority.
They have never been, nor never will be, as fanatical as European fans.
Look at how many American hard rock and metal bands, esp those in the 80s, released their first few albums overseas?

I agree with a comment Diabolik made above.
Too many people on these forums give in to internet hype.
The # of posters on these forums account for a small fraction of the total crowd of a show or festival.

I think it is erroneous and dangerous to attempt to translate the interest of posters here online to a Wacken-sized crowd. It will never happen in America.

As I said before, a festival needs to offer something more than just a collection of bands over a couple days.

 

[Cheiron]

hehe. I'll no longer say I'm going to a show/festival until I have made all arrangements to go =p

And I agree with you completely on all accounts. My prediction is 8,000 people would show up at $100 a ticket pricing. 2006's roster might do better than that due to the Scorpions alone. I still don't see a profit in it though.

And yeah, I doubt there will be a Rocklahoma II.

 

[Braxil]

Has anyone considered the possibility of booking a festival with some mainstream headliners and filling the lower slots with metal bands? I saw some festival in Turkey (I think) where the billing was:
Avril Lavinge
Tori Amos
Pain of Salvation
Riverside

And I think it sold pretty well actually.

 

[Cheiron]

That already happens. Warped Tour, Bonnaroo, Lollapolloza, and such all have some metal in it. But you'll never see EdGuy on any of these =p