The no digital camera rule.....

[Harvester]

He would have no bands to book if nobody came to the show. He also wouldn't bother with the show if he lost money.

True. However, I do not believe a digital camera ban will stop people from coming to the show. Other than Bryant, how many in this thread have said they would not come to the show because they couldn't take digital pics? I'm not asking how many people would be happy about it, but how many people would take a stand and boycott because they couldn't get a few pictures?


Glenn H.

 

[am_ash2]

As a non-digital camera owner (quit laughing) I have no problem. Can't bring ANY cameras to most concerts anyway so I don't see the big deal. You want to record something, wait until the "after" parties- it's much funnier anyway.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Amen, sister!

I still don't understand why someone would not attend because they can't bring their digital camera. Don't you people go for the MUSIC?

50% Music, 50% dysfunctional family reunion.
What's with the sweet metal angel stuff????!!! uke:

 

[Bryan316]

I ain't boycotting shit.

The way I see it, we all are more than priviledged with all the stuff we get. Who's ever heard of going to Ozzfest and getting a triple disc sampler of music we ACTUALLY wanna hear? Who's heard of getting such custom treatment as Vendors dedicated to bringing stuff we actually wanna buy? Who's heard of a national tour where you can hang out and pound brews with the headlining acts of the show? Who's heard of a tour with a bartendress as hot as Maria???

We're very very lucky to get what we can. I dare not act spoiled and unappreciative for everything I've already experienced these last four years. Glenn brought Manticora for my brother. For that, we're eternally grateful.









My only request is that we have a dedicated pit for headbangers so we can thrash our necks without worrying about headbutting someone! Hey.. it's for YOUR safety! Not mine!

 

[Sautherom]

True. However, I do not believe a digital camera ban will stop people from coming to the show. Other than Bryant, how many in this thread have said they would not come to the show because they couldn't take digital pics? I'm not asking how many people would be happy about it, but how many people would take a stand and boycott because they couldn't get a few pictures?


Glenn H.

It's no problem to me, in fact, PPV was my first PP, and i used both, digital and 35 mm. but obviously, digital are much better... but personally, i prefer to take photos with the bands during the pre party or signing session than live pics......as you see in my MSN Space (address below)

Glenn
in the pre party digital cameras are banned too?

 

[Tess]

50% Music, 50% dysfunctional family reunion.
What's with the sweet metal angel stuff????!!! uke:

That's a name my friend gave me like 2 years ago! Are you implying I'm not a 'Sweet Metal Angel'?????

 

[J-Dubya 777]

That's a name my friend gave me like 2 years ago! Are you implying I'm not a 'Sweet Metal Angel'?????

Ummmmm of course NOT!

 

[Met-Al]

This is such a touchy issue.
I know that most of you feel like you're being denied something that was previously given to you, but it's not like you ever absolutely had a right to bring digital cameras into the venue. It was a privilege. There's a difference. This is kind of like the smoking bans in concert venues in New York. If you lived in New York and there was a band that you really wanted to see, but you can no longer smoke in the venue in which that band is performing, would you still go? I would hope so, as I'd like to think that you would still want to support your favorite bands despite the lack of what was a privilege. I also feel the need to respond to Barking Pumpkin again, as I wonder about this guy sometimes. Pumpkin, if you have such a big problem with the way the festival is handled (i.e., not enough ridiculously obscure avant-garde bands on the bill, no use of digital cameras), I highly suggest you put your money where your mouth is. In fact, don't even put over $100,000 into a whole festival. Just book one band for one show. Try booking Ulver in your hometown for a one-night only, "evening with" sort of show, and come back to tell us how little frustration you had with the affair. I think it's a fair assumption that Glenn enjoys what he does. The positives definitely outweigh the negatives for him. However, this is a business venture for him. If you want your business to keep going, you need to be financially successful with it. That's not going to happen unless you find the right compromise between all of the stakeholders in that business (in this case, the promoter, the bands, the staff, the labels, the sponsors, and the fans). Personally, I won't have any major complaints with this festival until I can start up a better one. Seeing as how that's not happening anytime soon, Glenn won't be hearing any f-bombs from me.


Stay metal. Never rust.
Met-Al

 

[Sumeet]

This is such a touchy issue.
I know that most of you feel like you're being denied something that was previously given to you, but it's not like you ever absolutely had a right to bring digital cameras into the venue. It was a privilege. There's a difference. This is kind of like the smoking bans in concert venues in New York. If you lived in New York and there was a band that you really wanted to see, but you can no longer smoke in the venue in which that band is performing, would you still go? I would hope so, as I'd like to think that you would still want to support your favorite bands despite the lack of what was a privilege. I also feel the need to respond to Barking Pumpkin again, as I wonder about this guy sometimes. Pumpkin, if you have such a big problem with the way the festival is handled (i.e., not enough ridiculously obscure avant-garde bands on the bill, no use of digital cameras), I highly suggest you put your money where your mouth is. In fact, don't even put over $100,000 into a whole festival. Just book one band for one show. Try booking Ulver in your hometown for a one-night only, "evening with" sort of show, and come back to tell us how little frustration you had with the affair. I think it's a fair assumption that Glenn enjoys what he does. The positives definitely outweigh the negatives for him. However, this is a business venture for him. If you want your business to keep going, you need to be financially successful with it. That's not going to happen unless you find the right compromise between all of the stakeholders in that business (in this case, the promoter, the bands, the staff, the labels, the sponsors, and the fans). Personally, I won't have any major complaints with this festival until I can start up a better one. Seeing as how that's not happening anytime soon, Glenn won't be hearing any f-bombs from me.

I agree that some of the criticism in this thread is a bit beyond the bounds of what Glenn is even in a position to control (i.e., what individual bands think about bootlegging), and the "fuck you" comment at the start of the thread was certainly uncalled for, but I don't think it's logical to say that one can only have criticism or debate the topic if one can start their own, better, festival. For example, I went to a so-called "metal fest" about 5 years ago in New Jersey, and the whole event was a poorly-planned, poorly-run disaster. I was not in a position to start up a better metal fest (or any metal fest for that matter), but I don't think that's a logical reason for me refrain from describing that event in the most accurate manner possible... a disaster.

While ProgPower, on the other hand, is consistenly well-run, well-organized, and enjoyable, that doesn't preclude the possibility of comments, suggestions, or criticism from attendees. I would think that's actually part of the reason this message board even exists.

 

[skeptik]

"If you think it's so bad, why don't you do it better?" is the single most poorly constructed argument in the history of debate.

As Sumeet said, this is a message board designed for discussion. This isn't the "boost Glenn's ego" board; at least I hope it's not. So why does everyone take complaints about somebody else's management of a festival so personally? "I...feel the need to respond to Barking Pumpkin?" Why? Do you have partnership in the festival? Is your reputation on the line? It seems like everyone feels the need to shit on anyone that disagrees with Glenn. All I know is that all the shows I've ever gone to allowed digital cameras. I really don't consider that a priviledge at all. Now, if you gave me a camera at the door, that would be a priviledge. Otherwise, I just wish to visually record my experience in a hard format.

 

[Harvester]

All I know is that all the shows I've ever gone to allowed digital cameras. I really don't consider that a priviledge at all.

I would be interested in that list as it does go against the industry norm & what the majority on here have reported. I do not know of a single national touring act that allows digital cameras above a small club level.

As for the ego/shit on Glenn thing, I take the good with the bad. As I have always said, you are free to state anything you would like in a constructive manner and I do measure those comments carefully. If you do not like what I do, the best way to express your distaste is to simply not buy a ticket. When that starts to happen, then I know I need to change things.

Glenn H.

 

[jaimek]

Pumpkin, if you have such a big problem with the way the festival is handled (i.e., not enough ridiculously obscure avant-garde bands on the bill, no use of digital cameras), I highly suggest you put your money where your mouth is.

I hope you never bitch about the food at a restaurant, then, or complain that a book sucked.

(I understand what you're saying, but that's a reeeeeally illogical point to make. *g*)

 

[jaimek]

I would be interested in that list as it does go against the industry norm & what the majority on here have reported. I do not know of a single national touring act that allows digital cameras above a small club level.

I've taken photos at Trans-Siberian Orchestra, which plays at arenas. I did have a guard stop me and check that my camera was not a video camera, but he let me continue taking photos.

 

[skeptik]

I would be interested in that list as it does go against the industry norm & what the majority on here have reported. I do not know of a single national touring act that allows digital cameras above a small club level.

I didn't say it was above a small club level (only two), but that doesn't hold much of a difference in my opinion. Anyway,

Blind Guardian/Symphony X
Arch Enemy/shitty bands
Overkill/shitty bands
NJ Metal & Hardcore Fest (Morbid Angel, Suffocation, Nile, SYL, Symphony X, etc.)
Judas Priest/Queensryche
Metal Gods Tour (Halford, Amon Amarth, Primal Fear, Testament, Immortal)

That's all I can remember for now...

 

[Harvester]

but that doesn't hold much of a difference in my opinion. ...

Here in lies the key to our differences. Your opinion doesn't evaluate the business perspective, just your own opinion. You have nothing to lose so I can understand your side of things.

I have been second-guessed to death by a vocal minority on more than one subject. That's no problem. However, my policies have worked so far and you are going to have to prove me wrong (poor ticket sales) before I change my mind without an alternative plan that is acceptable to both the bands and myself from a financial standpoint.

Glenn H.

Glenn H.

 

[skeptik]

So you don't care about pissing music fans off, as long as you make your sales? Sometimes taking a monetary hit is the much more credible thing to do. That's not just applied to this issue though, I mean in general.

 

[Bryan316]

That's a horseshit statement right there, DG.

If he can't book bands that don't want pictures and bootlegging done, he won't have a good concert! And I'd rather see a good concert than bitch about digital photography! I'd rather see Glenn get bands that I'm still waiting impatiently to finally see, than have the priviledge of taking pictures of bands I don't like, care about, or don't already have shitloads of pictures from previous shows!!!

 

[skeptik]

And who are these bands that won't get their pictures taken? He won't say.

 

[Angrafan]

And who are these bands that won't get their pictures taken? He won't say.

AS much as I'd like to see that list, that won't happen! It would be totally unprofessional of his part.. he can't throw his bands under the bus like that...

 

[Harvester]

So you don't care about pissing music fans off, as long as you make your sales? Sometimes taking a monetary hit is the much more credible thing to do. That's not just applied to this issue though, I mean in general.

Ahhh...the Utopian Granola World Peace approach rears its merry head...

I lost more establishing this festival than you will *ever* understand. It was very painful and not just from a finanical standpoint. I'm just now back on my feet and truly happy with life after three years. I will NEVER return there. I will cancel the festival in a heartbeat before I get close to that point.


Like it or not, this is a business for me. It is a business that I love, but I don't work my ass off all year for the hell of it. Those that have followed the festival over the years, know that I put my heart and soul into it. Yes, I have had to piss a few fans and bands off along the way. I do it for the overall health of the festival.

I say that you and I simply need to agree to disagree and that's no problem at all. I don't mind losing crediblity in your eyes as I don't think your viewpoint represents the majority.


Glenn H.