Christian Metal
- Thread starter 7thSaviour
- Start date
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Actually, I had no clue. I knew you had contributed to this thread. However, I had no idea you were staunchly religious. I had simply assumed you were someone, unlike myself, who didn't care if the lyrics were of a religious nature.
On this we agree; Metal is about non-conformity. However, much of religion is about conformity. It's for this reason, I see the two as a strange pairing.If the idea of metal is non-conformity, then why should it stick to a set of standards?
Zod
Dominick_7
Member
While I can see expression of anger or angst, power, and rebellion as a shaping theme, I've listening to metal since I was a young kid and didn't really care much for certain bands that would talk about drug exploration much or sexual freedom and I don't think the music I listened to could have not been metal. When considering bands like Iron Maiden and others that focus on excellence in musicianship, I saw a more intelligent, topic/story/concept based, and melodically focused stream than the things you mention. The constant I see is distorted guitars, high energy, more extreme expressions in singing and drumming, orchestration, rebellion or fighting against something (doesnt exclude rebelling against satanic authority or injustice) etc. Are you saying Christian metal is not metal, or any bands that claim to be metal but are not into those things are not metal?
Facets of the Roman Catholic church may hold itself up as the authority on EARTH, but that's a pretty broad brush over the entire Christian church that in no way claims to be THE ULTIMATE authority.. The Christian church has always had God as the ultimate authority because He alone is ultimate.
Again that may be the case with some facets within Roman Catholicism but cannot be applied to all Christiandom. The Bible itself has 40 authors from different walks of life, professions, and all write in their own styles yet having complete consistency communicating what God wanted them to communicate. You have diversity, individual styles and angles, in unity. Unity is not the same thing as uniformity. While I do agree that the Bible is not about Western Individualism, it does teach the intrinsic value of the individual, ones individual rights, and asks each individual to relate to their Creator as He woos them to Himself in love.
Sexuality... the church is against almost all sexuality. Even within the confines of marriage, the Church places restrictions on sexuality. Granted, there are more liberal churches and no two churches preach an identical message. However, I don't think anyone is going to confuse the church's position on sexuality and what WASP sings about.
I don't understand how you can say this. The church is not against sexuality at all. Sex (in marriage) is Gods idea. The church is against all forms of sexual perversion or anything that demeans or diminishes people, relationships, or the distinct genders but NOT against sexual exploration with ones lifelong love male female union. All Christian churches, while they may disagree on the secondary issues (modes of baptism, forms of church government) they all agree on the essential clear teachings of the Bible (Jesus is God on the one end, and one is saved by Gods grace through faith in Christ on the other end).
I agree drug use is anti-thetical to Christianity, because were called to be alert and sober minded, intelligent ("love God with all your mind"), and wise, and can't do that while in an altered state, but how can you say unless its a song about drugs or that an artist has a general theme in the body of their work that pertains to drug use, that it isn't metal..Aren't you possibly confusing some rock bands and or hippie/60s rock, with Metal? If that's the case, I don't remember drug use to be a theme in MANY metal bands..
Yea its called possible overreaction..or the swaying of the pendulum no?
All philosophies when expressing what is most important engages in the realm of religion whether it be secular or not so I don't see your point. Either you must say all metal is evil, anti Christian (pro drug use, sexual expression etc), and call those that aren't evil or anti Christian as not metal, or else I think you will have to change the definition you have of metal no? Much of Prog Metal which seems more so concerned with artistic expression and musicianship may not fit your narrow definition.
Look... if someone wants to listen to or write Christian Metal... knock your socks off. If you like it, find inspiration from it or just want to bang your head to it... great. I'm of the belief that whatever makes you happy, that doesn't harm others, you should do. However, to suggest that Christianity and Metal create the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup of the musical world, truly borders on silliness. If we're being fair, then we must admit, the idea of Christian Metal is about as internally consistent as Satanic Gospel music.
Zod
By your definition of metal, unless I'm incorrect (these may not be the BEST examples but here goes..) Andre Matos, Vanden Plas, Angra, Helloween, TSO, Circus Maximus, Dream Theater, and even many other bands, especially Progressive Metal, are not metal because they don't have all those themes in their music..
Zod, what do you think of bands that skirt the boundaries of Gaia worship, like Stratovarius?
I also want to comment in regards to those old televangelists going on and on about heavy metal. that all always be grateful to rap music for getting Tipper Gore and televangelists off our backs.
I once watched a full 3-hours sermon by some televangelist on the subject on TV back in 1987 or so. It was cool because the reverend or whoever he was kept on showing metal videos and quoting lyrics. It was pretty funny how he misinterpreted the videos or quoted lyrics out of context. You'd think there weren't any actual devil-worshipping personas out there that he would choose to pick on bands like Kiss and AC/DC and Motley Crue.
I also want to comment in regards to those old televangelists going on and on about heavy metal. that all always be grateful to rap music for getting Tipper Gore and televangelists off our backs.
I once watched a full 3-hours sermon by some televangelist on the subject on TV back in 1987 or so. It was cool because the reverend or whoever he was kept on showing metal videos and quoting lyrics. It was pretty funny how he misinterpreted the videos or quoted lyrics out of context. You'd think there weren't any actual devil-worshipping personas out there that he would choose to pick on bands like Kiss and AC/DC and Motley Crue.
You know what I love about metal? That you can write lyrics about any-freakin-thing you want. Nothing is out of bounds, not even killer alien cockatoos. Contrast that to most other musical styles, where the acceptable lyrical content is VERY limited. 99% of R&B songs are about love. I laughed my ass off when Toni Braxton gave an interview lauding the diversity of her new album, how it "explores all the many aspects of love". Um, how about a song that's not about love? Why can't Toni Braxton sing a song about the Civil War? Or dragons? Or shiny swords? All right, that might be expecting too much, but how about just the every day struggles in life that prog bands sing about a lot? Country songs are also either about love, or about trucks, or patriotic songs. Lots more variety, but it's doubtful you'll pick up a country album with a song about the Russo-Finnish war of 1940(check out Sabaton's Taloivista. Awesome.)
In metal, you can be serious and depressive, and talk about suicide, drinking problems, life on the streets(18 and life?), or you can be happy and sing about the glory of the music itself, or about a great future where we all love each other and have lots of bunnies, or about getting laid in the lavatory of an airplane before it crashes. Heck, half the time lyrics are so deep with some of these prog bands especially, I don't have any clue at all what they are singing about.
In metal, you can be serious and depressive, and talk about suicide, drinking problems, life on the streets(18 and life?), or you can be happy and sing about the glory of the music itself, or about a great future where we all love each other and have lots of bunnies, or about getting laid in the lavatory of an airplane before it crashes. Heck, half the time lyrics are so deep with some of these prog bands especially, I don't have any clue at all what they are singing about.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I think I'm going to take this as my queue to bow out of this thread. The thread has reached a point where it can't end anywhere good. So with that in mind... cheers.
Zod
Pelata
FINAL SIGN
All this stuff about "non-comformity" and "the church teaches total conformity"...here's the thing, if you refuse to conform to one thing, you're conforming to something else. Everyone is conforming to something...even if it's the idea that Metal is "sex, drugs & rock n roll"...everyone conforms to something and lyrical output is a reflection of it...it reflects what the writer is conforming to as well as whay they are rebelling against.
Conformity swings both ways. Non-religious people refuse to conform to a religion, and religious people refuse to conform to non-religious ideals. So, when you say that "Christianity teaches total conformity" (which is a vague insult implying all Christians are mere sheep without their own brains), you yourself are conforming to an anti-Christian mindset. Some view religion as a prison, some view a life without faith as a prison...both are trying to escape...both are rebelling against something.
So, in short, everyone conforms to something by choice and it's usually in opposition to something else. If you think you're not conforming to anything, you're just happy in your own delusions...and that's cool.
Conformity swings both ways. Non-religious people refuse to conform to a religion, and religious people refuse to conform to non-religious ideals. So, when you say that "Christianity teaches total conformity" (which is a vague insult implying all Christians are mere sheep without their own brains), you yourself are conforming to an anti-Christian mindset. Some view religion as a prison, some view a life without faith as a prison...both are trying to escape...both are rebelling against something.
So, in short, everyone conforms to something by choice and it's usually in opposition to something else. If you think you're not conforming to anything, you're just happy in your own delusions...and that's cool.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
1. Believing what you believe
2. Not believing what you believe
My state of being has little to do with religion. I am neither doing things because religion told me to do them or purposefully doing things because religion told me not to. I suppose you could argue that a Satanist is conforming to Christianity in reverse. However, I'm not a Satanist.
By the way, probably best to take this conversation off line and have it over a few beers in September. It's too easy for tone and context to be misunderstood in this format and for people to get insulted. Cheers.
Zod
No... they don't. This idea suggests there only two states of being:
1. Believing what you believe
2. Not believing what you believe
My state of being has little to do with religion. I am neither doing things because religion told me to do them or purposefully doing things because religion told me not to. I suppose you could argue that a Satanist is conforming to Christianity in reverse. However, I'm not a Satanist.
If you found it insulting, then I sincerely apologize. That was not my intent at all. The truth of the matter is, I was being exceptionally careful not to insult anyone. I didn't choose the word "sheep", the bible did. And I wasn't suggesting Christians are sheep, only that religion often speaks of its followers as such. Congregations are often referred to as "flocks", Christ is often referred to as the "Shepperd", etc.
No... I'm not. While this may be difficult for you to accept, my mindset has nothing do with your faith. It is your faith. And while it may be easier for you to view me in terms of your faith, as being either Christian or anti-Christian, that is your paradigm, not mine. And I am not required to live my life within the context of your paradigm.
By the way, probably best to take this conversation off line and have it over a few beers in September. It's too easy for tone and context to be misunderstood in this format and for people to get insulted. Cheers.
Zod
Pelata
FINAL SIGN
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Pelata
FINAL SIGN
* Pellaz sadly puts the microwave popcorn back in its box.
Yeah, sorry...
Nothing to see here...move along. 
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Not a bad idea. Though, I almost never check the lounge. I should.Zod, perhaps we ought to have a Nonbelievers thread in the Lounge.
Zod
Palabra de Dios
Heavy Metal Weatherman
Hal9000
Dark Lord
Dominick_7
Member
Hey Zod. I respect you and you're right to disagree. Have no problem with it. Actually I welcome you to disagree as it shows you think, which is a good thing. Though I wouldn't have thought you the type of person who just doesn't talk to people you disagree with. Oh well.
Pelata
FINAL SIGN
I don't know...I liked the new BELIEVER...was different, but still had that Bachman signature, IMO.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Dominick... I think you misunderstood the intent of my "bowing out". My intent was never intended to ignore people I disagree with. On the contrary, I often find conversations with people I disagree with, more interesting than conversations with people I completely agree with. However, religion is a touchy subject for many. And based on some of your comments, I'm guessing you feel strongly about your faith. There was simply no way I could address some of your points, without directly attacking your religion, which I have no desire to do. For instance, you wrote...
I could literally write a book in response to that. However, in doing so, I would likely ruffle the feathers of people who I like. In addition, my participation in this thread has never been fueled by any anti-religious sentiment or a desire to challenge what people believe. I've participated in this thread merely because I genuinely find the marriage of Christianity and Metal paradoxical, and consequently, fascinating.
If you'd like to discuss any of this, feel free to PM me. Or better yet, come grab me in September and let's discuss it over a beer.
Cheers.
Zod
