The no digital camera rule.....

[Greykiller]

IMO, they'll always be tech geeks out there one step ahead of us normal people no matter what is done about the problem.

Glenn, maybe you should look into hiring one or two of these types of people that are excelled in this stuff to strictly look for it during the festival. You know, kind of like the idea of it takes one to know one. Those people should know what type of things to look for...

I will preface this by saying I bought a really really nice digital camera for no other reason than to use it at PP. Seriously.

That said, there are only a few (maybe a couple of dozen) cameras that can take more than a minute or two of video. You can have a list of those cameras, update it right till the show, and tell people that these cameras are not allowed. Same thing for phones. I would be happy to put my phone and camera up for any inspection, if it will let me get into the show with it.

I have access to a 35 mm camera, and am learning how to use it because I think that we are all wishing for Glenn to change his mind when he probably won't.


But I look at the camera in a box that I do not use, and feel sad.

And I think how many rolls of film I will shoot just to get a few good pictures, and I think of how much it will cost to develop them, and I feel worse.

And when I think of all those moments that will be lost because I cannot review the picture right away, and want to wring the necks of these heartless bastards who scewed it up for the rest of us.

 

[Jibrille]

How will digital cameras be defined? Because my brother has a nice 35mm slr camera that has an LCD on it. Makes it look like a digital camera but it uses film.

Guess there's always my old Canon Rebel or my even older Canon AE-1 but that has no flash.

 

[Harvester]

If everyone truly wanted to get digital cameras back, then I simply leave it in your hands to find the solution. If you went out and found a security/digital camera expert and paid his salary for the weekend to check every person that comes in the door, then you can have them back.

Just email me their credentials & contact. If I approve, somebody other than me pays the person. End of story.

Glenn H.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Respectfully, I don't think that's the responsibility of the festival attenders. People already pay a LOT to attend this festival, and they feel like they are entitled to be able to use digital cameras. I can't really find a reason to argue against them. The fact is that like it or not (and that goes for the bands too), if people are intent on taping the show, they will. There are affordable audio recording devices that no kind of security is going to detect. There are video recorders that will fit in the palm of your hand people will record with from under their seats. You can't stop it, whether the people are determined die-hard fans, or shitty bastards who are looking to make a quick buck off a band trying to please their fans.

Punishing the fans for this is not only ridiculous, but it has no benefit that I see. It's simply petty PR foolery as far as I see it. Some bands are obnoxious and immature about that kind of stuff. And........if bands aren't willing to live with playing a fest that doesn't have big NO DIGITAL CAMERA signs outside (which is really the only effect here), then I'm sure there are plenty of other splended bands of all caliber who actually know something about technology.

People who are doling out sometimes a grand to "do" Prog-Power don't want to spend a hundred plus extra dollars on buying and developing film when they just bought that nice digital camera just for Prog-Power. You can side with the 1000+ people who spend a lot of money and exhude a lot of effort to make it here and support the fest every year, or you can side with Blind Guardian (as you put it). I know it doesn't mean anything, but I vote for the fans, and it's obvious that Bryant does too.


*start flaming the 15-year-old who doesn't know shit about shit and thinks Ark are power metal now*

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

If everyone truly wanted to get digital cameras back, then I simply leave it in your hands to find the solution. If you went out and found a security/digital camera expert and paid his salary for the weekend to check every person that comes in the door, then you can have them back.

Just email me their credentials & contact. If I approve, somebody other than me pays the person. End of story.

Glenn H.

And? What would that do? There are recorders that fit on the rims of people's glasses. Just as technology allows people to purchase tickets from big corporations over the internet, and to have a big mixing board that can make ten different people on stage sound good, it allows people to record concerts, no matter how many big black security people are walking around and no matter how many big "NO TAPING" signs there are. Some people (bands) apparently just don't get that. I'm sure people here would be glad to pitch in and buy them a one way plane ticket to the nearest monastery, so that they wouldn't be bothered by the hassle of technology.

 

[Yippee38]

I think the point is that Glenn has to do everything in his power to prevent bootlegging. It's as simple as that. If people are going to get a digital recorder that is hidden in a pair of glasses, nobody is going to stop that. However, Glenn has to take resonable precautions to prevent bootlegging. Preventing digital cameras (and maybe even phones) would be reasonable. Telling people that they couldn't bring in glasses is not. Nor is it reasonable that security is going to search people for stuff that is so tiny that it wouldn't likely be spotted.

 

[Angrafan]

I don't understand the ban...

I mean, bootlegging sucks.. True! But, I don't think a band will refuse to play prog power because people are bootleging the show! It doesn't make any sense to me... There are bootlegs out there from shows EVERYWHERE! I don't understand how it damages prog power... I hardly believe a band would refuse to play the festival because of the risk of an illegal recording being out there...

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

I think the point is that Glenn has to do everything in his power to prevent bootlegging. It's as simple as that. If people are going to get a digital recorder that is hidden in a pair of glasses, nobody is going to stop that. However, Glenn has to take resonable precautions to prevent bootlegging. Preventing digital cameras (and maybe even phones) would be reasonable. Telling people that they couldn't bring in glasses is not. Nor is it reasonable that security is going to search people for stuff that is so tiny that it wouldn't likely be spotted.

Well.....I guess that's just where it is, whether you consider it "reasonable" or not. I don't think it's reasonable; from the reaction there are obviously a huge number of people here who bring their digital cameras and are put through what I consider unneccessary hassle now it looks like at present next year if they want to take pictures.

AThe only way I could see it being half-effective is to ban anything with an LCD screen, which is why I see they're being banned. If you don't have a sea of LCD screens in the audience because they're not allowed, you know that ones that are there shouldn't be there, is the goal. However.....cell phones nowadays do the same thing. Plenty of nice film cameras have LCD screens, as people have pointed out. So......where does it stop? Are cell phones going to be banned next? Next year? Ever? I would see that as having a much bigger backlash, since it seems like practically everyone has a cell phone.

 

[thesungoesdown]

Respectfully, I don't think that's the responsibility of the festival attenders. People already pay a LOT to attend this festival, and they feel like they are entitled to be able to use digital cameras. I can't really find a reason to argue against them. The fact is that like it or not (and that goes for the bands too), if people are intent on taping the show, they will. There are affordable audio recording devices that no kind of security is going to detect. There are video recorders that will fit in the palm of your hand people will record with from under their seats. You can't stop it, whether the people are determined die-hard fans, or shitty bastards who are looking to make a quick buck off a band trying to please their fans.

Punishing the fans for this is not only ridiculous, but it has no benefit that I see. It's simply petty PR foolery as far as I see it. Some bands are obnoxious and immature about that kind of stuff. And........if bands aren't willing to live with playing a fest that doesn't have big NO DIGITAL CAMERA signs outside (which is really the only effect here), then I'm sure there are plenty of other splended bands of all caliber who actually know something about technology.

People who are doling out sometimes a grand to "do" Prog-Power don't want to spend a hundred plus extra dollars on buying and developing film when they just bought that nice digital camera just for Prog-Power. You can side with the 1000+ people who spend a lot of money and exhude a lot of effort to make it here and support the fest every year, or you can side with Blind Guardian (as you put it). I know it doesn't mean anything, but I vote for the fans, and it's obvious that Bryant does too.


*start flaming the 15-year-old who doesn't know shit about shit and thinks Ark are power metal now*

WOW!!! That was well said and I agree 100%. We all know bands don't want to be "bootlegged" but banning digital cameras isn't the answer. If someone wants to do it they are going to find ways to record better than a digital camera will. I just find it hard to believe bands are in such fear of being recorded they would refuse to play anywhere. If that was the case I would think they wouldn't tour because it is inevitible they will be recorded at sometime somewhere. Bootlegs are such a small part in the overall picture it really isn't even worth worrying about. Counterfeit cd's sold on the streets of NYC is where the problem is. People that buy or trade unofficial releases generally have the commercially released catalog already. Bands should be more active against downloading their product since they stand to gain more with album sales.

 

[thesungoesdown]

I don't understand the ban...

I mean, bootlegging sucks.. True! But, I don't think a band will refuse to play prog power because people are bootleging the show! It doesn't make any sense to me... There are bootlegs out there from shows EVERYWHERE! I don't understand how it damages prog power... I hardly believe a band would refuse to play the festival because of the risk of an illegal recording being out there...

I was typing my response as you were typing yours. I guess we think alike...

 

[theodyssey]

Bands should be more active against downloading their product since they stand to gain more with album sales.

They really don't though. most money for most bands (this is a generality) is made not from cd sales, but from touring and merch sales.

 

[Harvester]

Barking Pumpkin,

I can speak till I'm blue in the face and I don't think you will understand the economic implications involved in the matter. You are young, intelligent, and very idealistic. The reality is that this is something that will indeed effect the roster quality as IT IS THE BANDS THAT DO NOT WANT TO BE RECORDED. It's as simple as that. I am fully aware that if someone really wants to record the show, I cannot stop unless I emply the CIA. However, it is my job to make that as difficult as possible. Your argument is to simply book another band that doesn't care. I hate to break it to you, but that percentage is very small in terms of headline caliber bands (in general, not to your specific tastes). The draw of the roster is eventually going to shrink when you eliminate over half the talent pool. The last and most important point that I have for you is that this show costs over $100,000 to produce. Would you like to gamble your own money on the issue? Or go the safe route and ensure a success? It's a different world when it's your own money on the line. If Bryant would have left off the last sentence, there would have been no problems at all. However, I lost all respect for him with the "fuck you" bit.

Angrafan,

The reality is that ProgPower USA is a big deal to you and I, but just another show to some bigger bands. While my show does help them to a certain extent, it's not going to break their wallet to skip my show. You can believe as you wish, but you are 100% wrong as bands do care and would not perform if I allowed cameras. I invite you to email the management of the bands that have performed in the past & see for youself if they mind if they are recorded while peforming (and then potentially sold on Ebay):

Symphony X
Nightwish
Gamma Ray
Blind Guardian
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Angra
Stratovarius.

The list goes on and on, but I think you get my point. As for the "everywhere" bit, compare bootlegs to illegal downloading. It's everywhere, but does that make it right if the bands do not want it?

Glenn H.

 

[Yippee38]

Well.....I guess that's just where it is, whether you consider it "reasonable" or not.

It's not what I consider "reasonable" or not. Nor is it up to you. It's up to what the courts would consider is reasonable, or at best, what the bands (their managment/labels/lawyers) think is reasonable. Glenn is only trying to cover his ass, and rightly so. He's doing what is reasonable for him to keep from being sued, and to ensure that bands will continue to think that Glenn's festival is one of the best run festivals in the world. I'm sure Glenn would lnot like anybody to think, "PP USA is one of the best run festivals in the world, but they have a real problem with bootleggers." If that was the case, he would begin to have trouble booknig bands. He's doing what he feels is reasonable to protect himself and the integrity and reputation of this festival. If that restricts our priveledges, that's the way it must be.

(the above was posted while I was typing)

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Again, I say. What is so difficult about following the rules? If digital cameras are banned, then so be it for the good of the festival. Look at the big picture here. No pun intended. I have a digital camera, but if they are banned, then a conventional camera is in order. Adapt and overcome. It's Glenn's festival to run as HE chooses. Follow the guidelines or don't go if this rule displeases you to no end. The solution is clear.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Symphony X
Nightwish
Gamma Ray
Blind Guardian
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Angra
Stratovarius.

I've seen bootlegs of five of those seven bands online recently, and I'm sure I could find the other two if I looked. I guarantee you that Symphony X were taped on at least half the dates of Gigantour just for the sole reason that Dream Theater support taping of their shows. I don't know about specific security measures for Gigantour, but I can't imagine security was as stringent as you're suggesting Prog-Power be. I don't think it's your fault at all, Glenn, but I don't see why bands would rather FANS who are paying huge money to come see them not be allowed to have digital cameras simply to give the APPEARANCE that Prog-Power is tough on bootleggers. From what I saw this year, you've got tighter security than at any other concerts I've been to, in terms of having security guys everywhere. If this seems to be above what at least some of these bands are used to, why are they "demanding" even more, not at the expense of the bootleggers, but at the expense of their fans?

Edit: I guess I'm preaching to the choir here, but my point was that no policy like this is going to do much against bootlegging, unless you really really take it to the extreme (umm.....cavity searches at the door? ), so it seems to me like these bands are just punching their Prog-Power fans for no reason.

 

[Angrafan]

Angrafan,

The reality is that ProgPower USA is a big deal to you and I, but just another show to some bigger bands. While my show does help them to a certain extent, it's not going to break their wallet to skip my show. You can believe as you wish, but you are 100% wrong as bands do care and would not perform if I allowed cameras. I invite you to email the management of the bands that have performed in the past & see for youself if they mind if they are recorded while peforming (and then potentially sold on Ebay):

Symphony X
Nightwish
Gamma Ray
Blind Guardian
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Angra
Stratovarius.

The list goes on and on, but I think you get my point. As for the "everywhere" bit, compare bootlegs to illegal downloading. It's everywhere, but does that make it right if the bands do not want it?

Glenn H.

I don't know how much the problem of recording has affected your negotiations with bands/management. But is the problem at prog power more severe than at other fests? Is the word out there, is something that is known at the industry "oh, bands are getting bootlegged at prog power"?

That's my whole point.. Is something that is preventing you from getting bands? Is this something that is associated with the fest?
I understand bands/management not wanting to be recorded, and they are probably very thankful of your efforts to prevent it from happening... But I still think that prohibiting all digital cameras takes away a lot from the fest. If you feel that the positive part of it is enough to overcome the bad part, I can't really discuss with you, as I don't know how much it is affecting your negotioation process!

But if it is affecting it that much, I will just have to take your word for it!

 

[Angrafan]

Again, I say. What is so difficult about following the rules? If digital cameras are banned, then so be it for the good of the festival. Look at the big picture here. No pun intended. I have a digital camera, but if they are banned, then a conventional camera is in order. Adapt and overcome. It's Glenn's festival to run as HE chooses. Follow the guidelines or don't go if this rule displeases you to no end. The solution is clear.

Well, Glenn is nice enough to let the fans discuss with him things about the fest.. Let's discuss it! We will respect the rules, of course, but the discussion can still occur!

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Well, Glenn is nice enough to let the fans discuss with him things about the fest.. Let's discuss it! We will respect the rules, of course, but the discussion can still occur!

I agree. Discuss all you want. But, if Glenn says digital cameras jeopardize certain elements of the festival, why push the issue? Why not take his word at face value?

 

[thedelicateflower]

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo SOME of us have social lives to keep up with!!

...trollop...

 

[zekeyou]

I understand people wanting to take pictures, but "No Cameras" is pretty standard at most shows (unless it's a verrrry small club). No camera phones, no disposable point and shoot, nothing.....That's been the norm for me at various clubs in the many different cities I've attended shows in....