Let's revisit the headliner issue...

Then I looked at the previous line-ups and realized that it seems to be mostly a prog rock/metal festival. Of all the bands listed in their past line-ups I recognized maybe five or six names and was really only interested in two (Porcupine Tree and Glass Hammer). Granted I've never heard of most of these bands so I could be totally off base on where they are at musically and if I would like them or not.

As someone who used to be a regular at NEARFest, one of the big selling points to their festival has always been the obscure bands that they've found that ended up kicking my ass. It is one aspect of that festival that I'd like to see more of in ProgPower. I felt that I got some of that in the last couple of years by bringing in bands like Freak Kitchen, Mustach (and the attempt to get Volbeat before then) and Riverside. This year I'm looking forward to Diablo Swing Orchestra as being another one of those bands.

Course, the risk is going to be is the audience open-minded enough to accept something different. Certainly I wondered that about Riverside since they are probably in more of a prog rock vein, but they seemed to go over pretty big last year. So, maybe the audience would be tolerant to some risk. Certainly Glenn is getting more comfortable with it.
 
If a show fails to sell and maintain the lofty levels we have achieved over the past decade, then there will only be one more show that following year. ProgPower USA will make a curtain call and go out while on top.

I have no idea how fast this show is selling out vs others, but I cannot help but think we will come within a few dozen tickets of selling out. That is ok, isn't it?

Also there are economists who are saying this downturn has just about hit bottom. Things will be looking up by September.

Have faith everyone. Buy your goddamn tickets already. They are an investment in the future of this show.

As I said before: Economy be damned. I will put all of this on a credit card if I have to, but I am still coming to the show!:headbang::headbang:
 
I agree with Zod...but that might be because I'm more a fan of the heavier, harsh vocal stuff. So of course I personally would like to see that stuff introduced to the fest.

I do think that people would come in for that stuff though...bands like Ram-Zet, Augury, and Symbyosis have solid fanbases.

Maybe even someone like Agalloch?
 
I agree with Zod...but that might be because I'm more a fan of the heavier, harsh vocal stuff. So of course I personally would like to see that stuff introduced to the fest.

I do think that people would come in for that stuff though...bands like Ram-Zet, Augury, and Symbyosis have solid fanbases.

Maybe even someone like Agalloch?

I'd pay $120 for Agalloch alone
 
I'd be inclined to push the boundaries of the festival towards a heavier direction, and less inclined to do so towards AOR. The reason being, this has always been a Metal festival. I've been to Porcupine Tree shows and it's a very different crowd, with a very different energy. Conversely, bands like Mercenary, Amorphis, Into Eternity and Orphaned Land have demonstrated that you can up the aggression level without changing the aesthetics of he festival dramatically. In addition, this forum, and I suspect the crowd as a whole, has evolved from viewing growl/harsh/death vocals with disdain, to being fairly accepting of them. I'm not sure Glenn has to continue to limit himself to only one band per yer who employs this vocal style.

Of course, this approach would be geared towards offering a balanced card, and less about creating a headliner centric festival.

Zod

As much as I would not want this to happen, I think you are correct. I think AOR would add nothing and infact take away from the fest. Again, I personally would not want to see more growl,death, harsh vox than is there already but I believe more of the core fan base would welcome it and you have to play to the greater numbers.

Having said that, I am one that has become more tollerant of the use of harsh vox. I still dont enjoy a band that uses 100% of that vocal style but I am really digging bands like Into Eternity. I love the mix in styles they use.
 
The best thing about the line-up at this festival is you're getting extended sets from bands that may never get that chance elsewhere in the states. It's not about being exclusive but more about seeing Manticora play for 40 minutes rather than 25 on another tour. It works the same way even for many of the headliners who otherwise cannot attain that position on a national tour.

As for the general mix. It's fine the way it is. I love death metal, thrash and even a fair amount of black metal. I can see those bands elsewhere. There is a healthy scene for those bands and many are able to tour nationally without need of being part of this festival. The inclusion of a few bands like that who mix in harsh vocals is cool but doesn't need to be any more of a focus. This festival promotes a style of metal that doesn't reach the masses in the same way and it's cool that way. The more avante garde bands that mix styles like Orphaned Land and Amorphis are incredible inclusions but still fit the mold of the incredible but often excluded. Giving them such an awesome venue to win over new fans is fantastic.
 
I'd be inclined to push the boundaries of the festival towards a heavier direction, and less inclined to do so towards AOR. The reason being, this has always been a Metal festival. I've been to Porcupine Tree shows and it's a very different crowd, with a very different energy. Conversely, bands like Mercenary, Amorphis, Into Eternity and Orphaned Land have demonstrated that you can up the aggression level without changing the aesthetics of he festival dramatically. In addition, this forum, and I suspect the crowd as a whole, has evolved from viewing growl/harsh/death vocals with disdain, to being fairly accepting of them. I'm not sure Glenn has to continue to limit himself to only one band per yer who employs this vocal style.

Of course, this approach would be geared towards offering a balanced card, and less about creating a headliner centric festival.

Zod
In full agreement with Zod. I see no problem with bands like Cynic, Akercocke, or even Ihsahn/Iliehr (whom are taking a more AtmoProg direction with their music). Also, I'd like to see ProgPower bring in more bands from Latin America (Legion of Hetheria and Venin Noir for example) and possibly Asia (X-Japan, Jeremy, SERAPHIM!:headbang:). But, in all seriousness, a harder direction would not hurt this festival.

Glenn, like Kaosaur, I am scratching my head at this stickied post. You have probably the finest reputation in the metal community, yet you are acting like you're frightened about having the worst. Sit down at the pool, pop open a cold one, and relax. It is a bad economy. Real bad. You need to ride it out. You have enough of a rep for putting on great shows that at this point you could have Light of Doom and William Hung headline, with a strong supporting cast, and it will sell out. So, just sit back and chill.

I will tell you this, though I believe Kaosaur might have read too much (as he said) into this, others won't! And, that alone could hurt you long term. So, just hang loose. ProgPower has a good many years left, and at ProgPower LXX, there will be another show, and a nurse will be pushing you around in your chair, and you will be telling our Grandchildren, "I remember the day when a guy named Damien from this band called Threshold....". :D
 
You have enough of a rep for putting on great shows that at this point you could have Light of Doom and William Hung headline, with a strong supporting cast, and it will sell out. So, just sit back and chill.

You mean like how it sold out the year he had Jorn and Evergrey play?

Oh wait.


Not trying to bash you or your choices btw, Glenn. I just think that people need to be realistic and not say "OMG IT'LL SELL OUT ALL THE TIME ALL DAY EVERY DAY." Because that isn't true at all.

Although I do agree Stingray, Akercocke and Ihsahn would be awesome :headbang:
 
So what do you do? Do you continue to pay for the big headliner that has either been here before or is touring in order to "hopefully" sell tickets to a concentrated fanbase? Do you elevate headliners, save a bit of money, and then build a stronger undercard that doesn't necessarily have the name with the regular attendees outside of this forum? Keep in mind that this forum is the exception to the attendee rule, not the norm.

Glenn, I really think that you should continue to do what you have been doing, with slight modifications as necessary. If you can't get headliners who are quite as big or as exclusive as in the past, I still think the basic ProgPower formula will work.

To answer your question above, I think you should do both as warranted by the line up. Elevate bands to higher slots (their fans will always be happy with more playing time) *and* bring back returning headliners. You can always try to throw in some twists. Maybe one year you bring back Symphony X, saving some money over the big exclusive headliners, but you get them to play V, or perhaps a setlist full of songs they've never done at ProgPower before. Those who don't like SX wouldn't be thrilled. Those who do would probably relish the chance to see them do something rare. Maybe one year you bring back Pain of Salvation (to use an example of a band I don't like). Sure they've been here before, but how often do their fans in the U.S. really get to see them live? They will reach a lot more fans on tour with DT, but that's the exception not the rule. In a few years you could bring them back and make their fans very happy. Maybe not me or JW, but if you stick with the PP formula I have no doubt we'd be happy with a least a few other bands. :)

Like many others have said, headliners are not the main draw for me either. It's the line up as a whole. Sometimes I love the headliner, sometimes I hate them, and sometimes it's in between.

I really believe that there will always (or at least for the foreseeable future) be 1200 people in North America willing to travel to see progressive and power metal bands. (Not to mention, there are those who come from other countries as well). It's about the whole picture. I came to my first ProgPower because of Threshold, and have been coming back ever since.

Yes, some of these bands are touring more often now, but not everyone gets these tours in their area. Some people still have to travel to see a Kamelot or Nightwish or even Blind Guardian. Most bands who have been to ProgPower still do not regularly tour the U.S. I don't want to see a band that I love only once in my life. :) In 10 years from now, if I've seen Vanden Plas at ProgPower 5 times, Threshold 4, Andromeda 3, etc, I'm not going to be complaining. Sure I might grumble about the bands I don't like (Jon Oliva again? PoS again?) but so what? Few of us expect to like all 10-12 bands every time.

There are still bands that people want to see but haven’t played ProgPower or the U.S. yet, and there will be new bands that you discover that the rest of us don’t know about. You can continue to have a festival with a good mix of new and returning bands.

I will hope that I'm right and I really believe that the interest in this kind of music is there. I don't think you need to change the format to a heavier festival with more death/extreme vocals, or a format with more AOR type bands. As someone pointed out, there are other festivals for those types of bands. As long as it's always ProgPower, with one (or maaaaybe two) extreme bands and/or only 1 or 2 odd ball bands, I'll keep coming and I believe others will as well. In all seriousness, I'd be happy to pay another $100 on my gold badge if it meant that ProgPower would be able to continue as ProgPower. (I’m not suggesting you raise the rates next year, just that I have room to pitch in and some others probably do as well, and we could figure out a way to help in a lean year.)

Chris
 
You mean like how it sold out the year he had Jorn and Evergrey play?

Oh wait.


Not trying to bash you or your choices btw, Glenn. I just think that people need to be realistic and not say "OMG IT'LL SELL OUT ALL THE TIME ALL DAY EVERY DAY." Because that isn't true at all.

I think that show was 6 tickets shy of selling out. I think PPUSA has sold out every other time since PP3. Based on that record I don't think it is unrealistic to bet on a sell out. I would take those odds any day of the week. The only new variable is the economy and that is the only thing that will keep this year from selling out. I still think it will sell out.
 
I think that show was 6 tickets shy of selling out. I think PPUSA has sold out every other time since PP3. Based on that record I don't think it is unrealistic to bet on a sell out. I would take those odds any day of the week. The only new variable is the economy and that is the only thing that will keep this year from selling out. I still think it will sell out.

I'm not trying to imply that this show won't sell out...I just think it's a bit ridiculous to think the festival will sell-out every year based on reputation alone. People don't go to a show thinking "hey, this year's lineup isn't that great, but last year was awesome!" The majority of festival goers go because they like the lineup of bands playing in that particular year. Not because it has a good reputation.
 
I think that if Riverside can come in and be awesome, then Agalloch could do the same. Plus I would easily pay $150 to see them (well, not easily, but I'd still eagerly do it).
 
I understand the so called headliner issue. The point is (and I guess is the basic view considering the amount of local attendants vs foreign ones) that a cool headliner plus many other bands is attractive to me because I'm not living in USA and therefore I can't fly everytime a band I like play a tour there. So taking a small vacation once a year (if my economy allows it) and see a band(s) I do like a lot worth the trip. But then the band doesn't have to be the headliner.

When my friends in USA convinced to attend my first PPUSA was the VII and I went initially because Savage Circus was playing and I wanted to know the people from the forum actually neither Evergrey or Nevermore interested me...of course when Nevermore bailed out and Jorn step in it became a must be for me. But Jorn may had took another slot and still worth the trip for me. Domestic problems and not enough interesting bands precluded me to attend VIII and IX.

Now for PPX I thought initially that it gonna be like a celebration, but I understand Glenn point on the cost of assembling such an all-star line up. So this year for me (besides seeing the people again) is about Sabaton and Matos (regardless of their slots) plus the showcase with Primal Fear. The other bands may become pleasent surprises (like Leatherwolf was at the PPVII showcase) or just something to be ignored.

Now headliner or not I believe that they're a lot of bands that can attract audience to the festival if brought to it:

Wolf (Swe)
Astral Doors (Swe)
Lion's Share (Swe)
Scale The Summit (USA)
Derek Sherinian and/or Planet X (USA)
Tetrafusion (USA)
Manigance (Fr)
Beyond The Labyrinth (Bel)
Viron (Ger)
Crystal Viper (Pol)
Adramelch (Ita)
Phantom-X (USA)
Crescent Shield (USA)
Cypher Seer (USA/Bra)
Benedictum (USA)
Cryonic Temple (Swe)
Darkwater (Swe)
Dream Evil (Swe)
Falconer (Swe)
Final Stage (Can)
Forgotten Tales (Can)
Highland Glory (Nor)
Karmakanic (Swe)
The Flower Kings (USA)
Lana Lane (USA)
Mesmerize (Ita)
Pharaoh (USA)
Project Creation (Bra)
Skyclad (UK)
Tarot (Fin)
Tyr (Far)

My point is that are many, many bands suitable for the festival that hadn't been there yet (as far as I know) and may interest people if they show and are bands that may not be touring the country and/or may not be that expensive to bring so it worth the shot.

Just a thought.
 
I haven't seen, and that is my draw to the festival this year. The metal fans in this country can see Symphony X, Sonata Arctica, or Helloween every couple of years either right in, or near their hometown.

You're wrong about Helloween. The last time they played in the US was 2003. They don't tour here at all anymore. The only reason they did in 2008 was because of their ProgPower performance.
 
The majority of festival goers go because they like the lineup of bands playing in that particular year. Not because it has a good reputation.

I don't think this is correct.

I think at least half of the attendees at each year's PPUSA keep returning because of word-of-mouth and their prior experience with the ambiance of the festival. Sure, if Glenn suddenly began booking artists that were completely different from the norm for PPUSA, those numbers would drop, but by and large I think at least 50% of the audience at PPUSA comes because:

1. they've been there before and had a great time, or their friends attended and spoke very highly of the fest
2. they know that Glenn will not only deliver some outstanding, talented performances, but even the bands they don't know that well are gonna be talented as all get-out
3. the venue is among the very best in the country for a festival this size...maybe THE best.
4. Vendors. CDs. Lots of metal CDs in one place. Doesn't happen too often, does it?
5. the feeling of camaraderie from the audience. Hell, in all the years that ProgPower has existed I don't think there has EVER been a major fight or incident. I doubt there's another metal festival in existence anywhere that can make that claim


Okay, 300 of those die-hard 50-percenters are on this very board, but..... :saint:
 
I don't think this is correct.

I think at least half of the attendees at each year's PPUSA keep returning because of word-of-mouth and their prior experience with the ambiance of the festival.

Maybe for a few years this was the case. But with the high turnover of gold badges it seems that might not be the case. Given, it might be more about personal financial situations, than the bands put on the roster, but I think there are few General Zod's out there (people who come at times primarily for the festival parts, not necessarily the roster).
 
Glenn, like Kaosaur, I am scratching my head at this stickied post. You have probably the finest reputation in the metal community, yet you are acting like you're frightened about having the worst. Sit down at the pool, pop open a cold one, and relax. It is a bad economy. Real bad. You need to ride it out. You have enough of a rep for putting on great shows that at this point you could have Light of Doom and William Hung headline, with a strong supporting cast, and it will sell out. So, just sit back and chill.
I suspect he's simply taking the forum's temperature, with respect to balanced line ups vs. big headliners.

Zod